Reply to: People skills and emotional intelligence

[2BIT]

I think the language barrier and cultural differences play a part, but he's also not a great listener and gets very frustrated very quickly if anyone questions his opinion or ideas.

I once had a PM screaming at me and the team to solve an issue I'd just told him was unsolvable, he demanded we came up with a solution but given that it was impossible to no one said anything- then after about five minutes of embarrassing silence the PM relented because he himself couldn't think of a solution either so it pays to be passive-aggressive about things sometimes

[suityou01]

Knowing Doodab's ClientCo (same as mine) I sympathise. I also tried to leave at the end of March but I have been specifically requested to stay on. I clearly don't have to, but don't like people being left in the lurch so have agreed a 3 month extension.

This PM is an uber knob, and has tried to play the "look how professional I am" card after Doodab's little outburst. The problem here is Doodab's peers can see the writing on the wall and it doesn't matter how much constructive feedback he gives it does nothing to fix the critical problems :

a) The project plan is fantasy
b) The project has problems
c) He doesn't listen to points a) + b)

No choice but for Doodab to skidaddle IMHO.

[GreenLabel]

"it's the senders job to make sure a message arrives"

That attitude astounds me though unfortunately it's not uncommon. So the ability and willingness of the recipient to actually listen don't play a part at all? If the recipient has poor comprehension skills and is unable to understand what he's being told in spite of the fact that it's been repeated several times that's somehow the sender's fault?

What utter carp.

[doodab]

So he, at least, does have people skills and emotional intelligence.

A translation of the above:
1) He thinks you are a total numpty who couldn't plan or manage the proverbial Piss up in a Brewery
2) He is a decent enough man manager not to blow you out of the water completely but attempt to give you some help/pointers for the future.

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

Another piece of feedback he gave me yesterday was that "it's the senders job to make sure a message arrives". It took me shouting to do that job.

My opinion is that he is quite a difficult manager to work with, very autocratic, doesn't listen to things he doesn't want to hear, makes decisions in contradiction of sound technical advice and then blames the people who gave him the advice when things don't turn out how he hoped.

I think the language barrier and cultural differences play a part, but he's also not a great listener and gets very frustrated very quickly if anyone questions his opinion or ideas.

The other day for example, it wasn't like he was calm throughout, in fact it wasn't until he started shouting at me because I was disagreeing with him that I shouted back. It took my outburst and the intervention of a third party to persuade him to stop trying to impose his preformed idea and listen to what I was trying to tell him.

Another part of the problem is that he tends to commit to delivering things in unrealistic timescales without consulting the people who will actually be doing the work. In general I get a piece of work and a date, no input into the schedule, and if I say it's unrealistic then I'm ignored. In this particular case the schedule has slipped because I was allocated (by him, essentially) to other work, and the deadline has moved by less than the time I've spent on other work.

After the meeting, one of the other people in it said he and two other colleagues had recently had a similar exchange, and I can remember an occasion just before Christmas when he blew up in a similar fashion over a trivial matter.

I suspect if he thought I was a total numpty I would have been allowed to leave as requested, I certainly wouldn't have got a rate rise for the handover period or the local head of HR taking me for lunch to talk through the last few years with a view to keeping me on board for the longer term.

[Wodewick]

<snip>
...he gave me some valid and well judged constructive criticism regarding the things he thinks are weak points and "would ask me to improve if I were to lead part of the team in the future", the main one being that he feels I have no overview or structure to the way I manage the various subprojects that make up my remit, or at least if I do he has no view of it. We will probably have another meeting to go through the way I do things and find a way that he can have a bit more visibility. Just as soon as I have got it all out of my head into something resembling a plan.

He also gave me some very positive feedback about my strong points, which outweigh the weak ones sufficiently that he is rather unhappy I am leaving, which was already on the cards and not just because of what happened yesterday.

So he, at least, does have people skills and emotional intelligence.

A translation of the above:
1) He thinks you are a total numpty who couldn't plan or manage the proverbial Piss up in a Brewery
2) He is a decent enough man manager not to blow you out of the water completely but attempt to give you some help/pointers for the future.

[Old Greg]

Nah, he suggested that during some recent problems I hadn't told him that things were going wrong. So I shouted at him, then listed the three times I had informed him of the issues in the particular example he chose, several pieces of technical advice he had decided to ignore that got us into our current, unrelated, predicament, a few past occasions when he had done the same thing, gave some other examples of situations where his being simply too busy to respond to attempts at communication had resulted in problems or delays, and added some reasons why what he was now proposing would guarantee we had a zero percent chance of hitting our target.

Anyway today we had a meeting about something else and at the end he offered me some "feedback" which I had a choice of listening to or not, I accepted and he gave me some valid and well judged constructive criticism regarding the things he thinks are weak points and "would ask me to improve if I were to lead part of the team in the future", the main one being that he feels I have no overview or structure to the way I manage the various subprojects that make up my remit, or at least if I do he has no view of it. We will probably have another meeting to go through the way I do things and find a way that he can have a bit more visibility. Just as soon as I have got it all out of my head into something resembling a plan.

He also gave me some very positive feedback about my strong points, which outweigh the weak ones sufficiently that he is rather unhappy I am leaving, which was already on the cards and not just because of what happened yesterday. And then I fed his wife's face to his dogs.

FTFY

[MarillionFan]

Nah, he suggested that during some recent problems I hadn't told him that things were going wrong. So I shouted at him, then listed the three times I had informed him of the issues in the particular example he chose, several pieces of technical advice he had decided to ignore that got us into our current, unrelated, predicament, a few past occasions when he had done the same thing, gave some other examples of situations where his being simply too busy to respond to attempts at communication had resulted in problems or delays, and added some reasons why what he was now proposing would guarantee we had a zero percent chance of hitting our target.

Anyway today we had a meeting about something else and at the end he offered me some "feedback" which I had a choice of listening to or not, I accepted and he gave me some valid and well judged constructive criticism regarding the things he thinks are weak points and "would ask me to improve if I were to lead part of the team in the future", the main one being that he feels I have no overview or structure to the way I manage the various subprojects that make up my remit, or at least if I do he has no view of it. We will probably have another meeting to go through the way I do things and find a way that he can have a bit more visibility. Just as soon as I have got it all out of my head into something resembling a plan.

He also gave me some very positive feedback about my strong points, which outweigh the weak ones sufficiently that he is rather unhappy I am leaving, which was already on the cards and not just because of what happened yesterday.

Regardless of your outburst, that sounds like a guy who has taken on board the criticism and at the same time has offered constructive appraisal of your own skills. I would say that merits the making of a good manager.

One of areas I have found lacking within individuals in IT is that, although they may be incredibly competent and good at their jobs they struggle with the bigger picture and get focussed on detail. Whereas the detail is important, it is more important never to get stuck or bogged down in one area.

I used to get incredibly frustrated with people / situations / contracts and as is joked on CUK would 'punch someone out or walk out'. Whereas this meme has some basis in truth in the past, I have been posting on CUK for over a decade and have been thankful of that type of constructive criticism when it has been given generously. In addition, I took a mentor when I was a permanent manager, someone who could see both my strengths and weaknesses, but to whom I did not work for or with and so was a good sounding board. That was incredibly useful.

So take that for what it's worth and if you don't agree I'll kick your ******* head in! :

[doodab]

As we're talking about people skills and emotional intelligence, you need to work on your passive aggression. Just agree politely with his suggestion. Next time things are going wrong, sit there in silence. When he asks why you're not speaking, tell him that he asked you not to say when things are going wrong. Similarly, send blank reports.

Nah, he suggested that during some recent problems I hadn't told him that things were going wrong. So I shouted at him, then listed the three times I had informed him of the issues in the particular example he chose, several pieces of technical advice he had decided to ignore that got us into our current, unrelated, predicament, a few past occasions when he had done the same thing, gave some other examples of situations where his being simply too busy to respond to attempts at communication had resulted in problems or delays, and added some reasons why what he was now proposing would guarantee we had a zero percent chance of hitting our target.

Anyway today we had a meeting about something else and at the end he offered me some "feedback" which I had a choice of listening to or not, I accepted and he gave me some valid and well judged constructive criticism regarding the things he thinks are weak points and "would ask me to improve if I were to lead part of the team in the future", the main one being that he feels I have no overview or structure to the way I manage the various subprojects that make up my remit, or at least if I do he has no view of it. We will probably have another meeting to go through the way I do things and find a way that he can have a bit more visibility. Just as soon as I have got it all out of my head into something resembling a plan.

He also gave me some very positive feedback about my strong points, which outweigh the weak ones sufficiently that he is rather unhappy I am leaving, which was already on the cards and not just because of what happened yesterday.

[Old Greg]

Today I screamed bulltulip at the PM on my project, so loud I lost my voice for a bit, after he had suggested that I don't tell him when things are going wrong.

I said sorry afterwards, then after we all had a chat I gave him a list of reasons why what he had said was bulltulip (i.e. 10 times I told you so and you ignored me) and everyone agreed with me.

Then I went back to the office and told them I am leaving at the end of March.

As we're talking about people skills and emotional intelligence, you need to work on your passive aggression. Just agree politely with his suggestion. Next time things are going wrong, sit there in silence. When he asks why you're not speaking, tell him that he asked you not to say when things are going wrong. Similarly, send blank reports.

[d000hg]

People skills and emotional intelligence

I think you, MF, Sas & Churchill should form a quorum on this important issue, team up with malvolio and get your seminal work** submitted to PCG.

**a load of

[doodab]

Good man. Don't take any tulip. Remember to kill him and bury his body when you leave.

I don't need to. He's burying himself at the moment.

[MaryPoppins]

Today I screamed bulltulip at the PM on my project, so loud I lost my voice for a bit

I'm really, really laughing

[MarillionFan]

Today I screamed bulltulip at the PM on my project, so loud I lost my voice for a bit, after he had suggested that I don't tell him when things are going wrong.

I said sorry afterwards, then after we all had a chat I gave him a list of reasons why what he had said was bulltulip (i.e. 10 times I told you so and you ignored me) and everyone agreed with me.

Then I went back to the office and told them I am leaving at the end of March.

Good man. Don't take any tulip. Remember to kill him and bury his body when you leave.

[doodab]

Today I screamed bulltulip at the PM on my project, so loud I lost my voice for a bit, after he had suggested that I don't tell him when things are going wrong.

I said sorry afterwards, then after we all had a chat I gave him a list of reasons why what he had said was bulltulip (i.e. 10 times I told you so and you ignored me) and everyone agreed with me.

Then I went back to the office and told them I am leaving at the end of March.

[Cliphead]

The title of this thread contains the names of two excellent books I read in recent years...

1) "People Skills" by Robert Bolton, Ph.D.

2) "Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman

Both are really excellent books. I learned a lot from them and enjoyed reading them. I'd like to practice the techniques covered in "People Skills", but working in IT does not really provide much opportunity for that. I have been considereing doing some kind of voluntary part-time work that might provide suitable opportunities, but haven't yet decided on what I should do.

Cheers,
Bwana

Try your skills in a pub.

HTH