Reply to: Ayn Rand and Objectivism

[sasguru]

There's seems to be a misunderstanding that if you work in the private sector then you are automatically creating wealth.

If you are an agency, umbrella company or accountancy and your income is derived from charging a fee to contractors then you are not creating wealth. You are simply diverting already earned income for a service which what the Public Sector does. If any of your clients are working for the Public Sector then you too are on the 'gravy chain' and adding to the cost of public services.

If however you are a contractor in a highly profitable company selling aero engines around the world then you most definitely are creating wealth for UK PLC and the other pseudo private companies that feed on your wealth creation.

Indeed.

[Mich the Tester]

I agree Mich. I'm disagreeing with the premise that the private sector automatically 'creates wealth'. Does an out sourced company providing care for the elderly but funded by the local authority create wealth?

For the directors, yes, tuliploads of it. As you say, that's not wealth creation, but diversion of wealth. Don't ask about the people requiring care.

[Gibbon]

I'd also say it's simplistic to state that the public sector doesn't create wealth. Right now I'm working on GIS systems in the public sector which are used in planning business locations, water provisions, electricity provisions, road building etc etc. This contrubutes to the creation of wealth, albeit indirectly, but then 'indirectly' can apply to anyone who isn't actually bashing nails into wood or screwing things together.

I agree Mich. I'm disagreeing with the premise that the private sector automatically 'creates wealth'. Does an out sourced company providing care for the elderly but funded by the local authority create wealth?

[Mich the Tester]

There's seems to be a misunderstanding that if you work in the private sector then you are automatically creating wealth.

If you are an agency, umbrella company or accountancy and your income is derived from charging a fee to contractors then you are not creating wealth. You are simply diverting already earned income for a service which what the Public Sector does. If any of your clients are working for the Public Sector then you too are on the 'gravy chain' and adding to the cost of public services.

If however you are a contractor in a highly profitable company selling aero engines around the world then you most definitely are creating wealth for UK PLC and the other pseudo private companies that feed on your wealth creation.

I'd also say it's simplistic to state that the public sector doesn't create wealth. Right now I'm working on GIS systems in the public sector which are used in planning business locations, water provisions, electricity provisions, road building etc etc. This contrubutes to the creation of wealth, albeit indirectly, but then 'indirectly' can apply to anyone who isn't actually bashing nails into wood or screwing things together.

[Gibbon]

Wealth Creation

There's seems to be a misunderstanding that if you work in the private sector then you are automatically creating wealth.

If you are an agency, umbrella company or accountancy and your income is derived from charging a fee to contractors then you are not creating wealth. You are simply diverting already earned income for a service which what the Public Sector does. If any of your clients are working for the Public Sector then you too are on the 'gravy chain' and adding to the cost of public services.

If however you are a contractor in a highly profitable company selling aero engines around the world then you most definitely are creating wealth for UK PLC and the other pseudo private companies that feed on your wealth creation.

[sasguru]

So we all agree that the UK is a mess and we are all correct in our opinions? Excellent result

Yes get the kettle on, luv.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

So we all agree that the UK is a mess and we are all correct in our opinions? Excellent result

[sasguru]

Anyway interestig discussion folks - shame we've been part of the unproductive private sector today
No wonder the Germans are giving us a licking.

[sasguru]

50% of the population working for the public sector is unsustainable (my original point) - please respond

HTH

I've already agreed.
But as the private sector cake is too small for the population, we're going to have to tolerate a (real) unemplyment rate of about 15-20% if we want to be brutally honest.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

My point was that you didn't get mine.
HTH.

50% of the population working for the public sector is unsustainable (my original point) - please respond

HTH

[sasguru]

Do you always resort to insults when you don't have a point?

My point was that you didn't get mine.
HTH.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Di you hear a whooshing sound go over your head?

Do you always resort to insults when you don't have a point?

[xoggoth]

you can't measure value just by monetary means (or wealth as you put it)

Mostly agree again, however, there remains a big problem of pointless expenditure in the public sector simply because there is no effective measure of that value. The private sector mostly works because if a company does not supply goods/services that people want to buy and does operate at a profit it will die.

In the public sector the measure of value is far too subjective and the empire builders can run amock. Everyone has an inflated idea of their own worth, the measure has to be independent. There also appear to be few effective measures to control costs. Quite what the solution is I have no idea.

Another major problem is unionisation. There are significantly higher rates of strikes and sickness in the public sector and it is also far too difficult to remove the less competent. The lack of merit based pay also discourages the best candidates.

[sasguru]

I know how you feel!! The public sector can order what they like from the private sector but, at the end of the day, it is being paid for by the taxes from the private sector

Di you hear a whooshing sound go over your head?

[sasguru]

Year after year, business has said that private-sector job creation depends on giving employers the flexibility they need to hire and fire. We constantly argue that regulation is an increasing barrier to jobs growth. Despite this, successive governments have increased rather than decreased the burden. (on the subject of employment tribunals)

Lets just take this one.
The UK now has probably the most flexible job market in Western Europe, in terms of hiring and firing. The US is even more flexible.
Yet these countries are not doing better than than others in job creation.