Reply to: IoD - "scrap public sector union rights"

[minestrone]

Do they go on strike though?

The new contract stopped that nonsense talk. They got a near trebling of their rate in the last decade in a sustained period of low inflation.

THe girly was going to BMA meetings all through that time when the contract was discussed, they were well up for striking, the government knew it and raised their rates through the roof. They paid off the employers who run the NHS at sub governmental level.

[GreenLabel]

Why is it nonsense?

There are plenty of large firms that operate in cuthroat competitive environments. The fact that a company is large and successful doesn't make it a monopoly, nor does it mean that it's destined to become one.

[Mich the Tester]

The BMA is the super unions of super unions, it regulates who can and cannot work in the field and has pop shots at government nearly every week. It demands full membership of every worker and every government runs tulip scared from them.

Blair was clever in that he paid them off early in his 'reign'.

Do they go on strike though?

[minestrone]

The BMA is the super unions of super unions, it regulates who can and cannot work in the field and has pop shots at government nearly every week. It demands full membership of every worker and every government runs tulip scared from them.

Blair was clever in that he paid them off early in his 'reign'.

[Mich the Tester]

Are you kidding? He is their secret weapon come the next Election!!

Indeed. If Labour try to regain ground on the left, come a general election all that Call-me-Dave has to say to English voters is 'Bob Crowe' and they'll all come rushing to the Tories again.

[AtW]

Where have you been since Thatcher got kicked out of government?

I was behind the Iron Curtain. But they could not hold me there forever!

So when the IoD start moaning about unions

They are not moaning - they simply stated the obvious and don't do it that often. Unlike unions who keep talking about dirty capitalists.

Additionally it should be illegal to become union official without experience of actually running a business, successfuly I hasten to add!

Frankly if I was running BA I'd give all unions operating on airline 24 hour ultimatum - disband OR BA gest liquidated to realise shareholder value - all assets sold to the highest bidder, everyone fired obviously and they will be free to apply for jobs at new BB airline that will surely be formed.

HTH

[SueEllen]

Unions in this country played positive role maybe 100+ years ago, however after that they begun to play very negative "shoot-yerself-in-the-foot" kind of role, especially in public sector.

That's what the Govt should have started in the first place - ban all union contributions to political parties, disband main unions in public sector - they have a role to play as regional watchdogs to ensure employees don't get unfairly treated, but making large demand for pay gives no choice to firms but to move work elsewhere, at the end the very people unions are meant to protect will lose their jobs.

I mean ffs, there is a reasonably good legal system in this country to defend ones rights - there are plenty of laws protecting workers: unions are there only to extort higher pay at the threat of strike at the worst possible time, how would they like if employers were legally allowed to say - accept pay cut of X% or we sack you all tomorrow?

The only thing that stops most people getting proper justice in courts in this country is high cost of lawyers - that problem is due to artificial monopoly and can be dealt with provided there is enough political will.

Where have you been since Thatcher got kicked out of government?

Union membership has been falling in this country which is why some of the unions have amalgamated to become bigger i.e. Amicus.

Anyway teachers tend to be in unions because of the threat of pupils making allegations against them and not being able to afford the legal costs of any action against them. Similar for others who deal with vulnerable people in the NHS. Lots of them have absolutely no interest in striking as unlike the BA cabin crew they can't afford not to get paid.

Also not all NHS staff are in unions, and some of those staff like doctors are in what people don't associate as being a union i.e. the BMA.

Interestedly my sister-in-laws who work as nurses only right to flexible working is to have their shifts swapped with someone else like most of the clinical staff at any level.

So when the IoD start moaning about unions I like to know exactly what area of the public sector they are interesting in because I bet it's not the sectors they have already played with like some council IT systems, council parking warden, NHS cleaning or NHS porter services.

[SueEllen]

Indeed. NHS and teaching unions are among the least militant, although one issue that needs to be addressed is the extreme difficulty in getting rid of bad teachers.

Good heads can get rid of bad teachers.

My head at my comp got rid of a few and a mate of mine has got rid of some.

Restructuring departments does have a purpose you know.

[AtW]

You'd think a Russian would endorse unions.

Unions in this country played positive role maybe 100+ years ago, however after that they begun to play very negative "shoot-yerself-in-the-foot" kind of role, especially in public sector.

That's what the Govt should have started in the first place - ban all union contributions to political parties, disband main unions in public sector - they have a role to play as regional watchdogs to ensure employees don't get unfairly treated, but making large demand for pay gives no choice to firms but to move work elsewhere, at the end the very people unions are meant to protect will lose their jobs.

I mean ffs, there is a reasonably good legal system in this country to defend ones rights - there are plenty of laws protecting workers: unions are there only to extort higher pay at the threat of strike at the worst possible time, how would they like if employers were legally allowed to say - accept pay cut of X% or we sack you all tomorrow?

The only thing that stops most people getting proper justice in courts in this country is high cost of lawyers - that problem is due to artificial monopoly and can be dealt with provided there is enough political will.

[d000hg]

You'd think a Russian would endorse unions.

[AtW]

I think there's a conundrum here. If they are too powerful, then they can't be broken up because the government will 'lose' in the show down.

They should be broken up BEFORE they become too powerful, that's the point.

Same should go for unions - having single rate negotiated for whole country does not take into account individual aspects of particular firms who might not be a profitable to sustain this national level, this collective bargaining is as bad (if not worse) as having big firms set single rates for salaries.

On this basis I'd break up big unions and forbid any unions to be greater than certain size, certainly no national unions - perhaps territorial units who will be realistic enough about local economy and won't push businesses over the threshold when it is more profitable to outsource.

Thank you.

[shaunbhoy]

How about they leave the NHS and teachers alone and just scrap Bob Crowe and the RMT?

Are you kidding? He is their secret weapon come the next Election!!

[Old Greg]

Private firms that are too big become monopolies and therefore needs to be controlled or broken up, same should happen with unions - they are too powerful.

I think there's a conundrum here. If they are too powerful, then they can't be broken up because the government will 'lose' in the show down. If they can be broken up, then they are not too powerful. A bit trite perhaps but I like its neatness and will stick with it.

[AtW]

What have public sector unions got to do with the IoD?

Unions in public sector prevent private companies from being able to offer services paid by taxpayers.

HTH

[RichardCranium]

What have public sector unions got to do with the IoD?

The public sector 'Directors' (yeah, right, typically over-promoted incompetent managers) I have worked with have, on the whole, but utterly inept, back-stabbing, political, ladder-climbers who would not recognise a day's work if it jumped up and bit them on the arse. Very long hours, but bugger all relevant activity.