Reply to: Dont worry, its getting better under the tories - yes, really.

[OwlHoot]

Yep, paying for the NHS is for little people and losers don't ya know....

Why the smiley? - That's a good point well made!

[minestrone]

Leave the NHS to the people on the ground, that is what this policy is about.

Of course you have a degree medicine bollocksBastard, you know what you are talking about, I bow to your years watching MASH, Casualty and Chigaco Hope. I seen you on prats in pratice.

[suityou01]

I wonder just how many of the 1.3m NHS employees are medical, nursing and medical ancillary staff who keep the medical facilities functional?

As to things getting better under the Tories or Coalition, we all knew that wouldn't happen for many years as they've got a huge financial hole to fill in before they can make any real improvements.

WSFBS

It's great being on his IL, he'll never see. Tee hee.

[TykeMerc]

I wonder just how many of the 1.3m NHS employees are medical, nursing and medical ancillary staff who keep the medical facilities functional?

As to things getting better under the Tories or Coalition, we all knew that wouldn't happen for many years as they've got a huge financial hole to fill in before they can make any real improvements.

[hyperD]

The fastest and most significant way to reduce opex is to remove staff that are unecessary overheads: pointless bureaucratic middle management, diversity officers and associated tick boxers and non-job parasites.

For an monstrous tax gorging entity that employs more than 1.3m people and is one of the largest employers in the world along with the Chinese Army, Indian railways and Wal-Mart supermarket chain, it shouldn't be so taxing (for us).

[cojak]

Yep, paying for the NHS is for little people and losers don't ya know....

[AtW]

Well perhaps not if you cannot afford to pay

Aren't you the guy who used one of those offshore schemes which in a words of a judge "the overall effect had been to reduce Mr Huitson's tax rate to just 3.5%."? (source: BBC News - Offshore tax avoiders face £100m tax bill ) - if that's the case then you are in no position to whine about what tories do.

[Freamon]

I suggest you listen to Radio 4's "More or Less" when it is on. Every time these statistics get trotted out by the politicians or media, More or Less rips them apart.

The countries of Europe do not, and never have, used the same definitions on death certificates. For example, France has "sudden death" which we do not. Most heart attacks in France go down as "sudden death". While we show far more deaths by heart attack than France, they have far more "sudden deaths" because we have none.

We have also become very good at post-mortems and classifying causes: "natural death" is getting rare. Other countries still use it for old people dying of cancer and other diseases so we appear to have have very bad heart and cancer death statistics with nobody dying of old age. In reality, we are living longer and often getting more and more varied treatment than countries which appear to be doing better.

These medical statistics between countries are not valid because they are not comparable - they are specifically picked by politicians and the media to make points or fill column inches.

You can do a lot of harm with statistics and "Management Information". In healthcare you can actually kill people.

[KentPhilip]

Well perhaps not if you cannot afford to pay for hip, hernia and knee operations. With budgets likely to be shifted to gP's, never mind, its not the tories fault.

Patient care at risk under NHS reforms, experts warn - Telegraph


Operations could be cancelled as GPs try to save money under a new system that gives them control of billion-pound budgets, it has been claimed.

Standards could also suffer as doctors give preference to local hospitals or cheap private providers rather than established regional centres of excellence, while clinicians are ignored under the revised arrangements.

Royal colleges, professional bodies, think tanks and charities have written briefings for MPs on the controversial Health and Social Care Bill ahead of its second reading in the Commons on Monday. They believe the scale and pace of change being imposed on the NHS is too great when it is being asked to find £20 billion of savings within four years

To quote from the above link:

"They also fear that the reorganisation ... will lead to the loss of expertise as two tiers of management are removed"


Since when has "expertise" ever been found in management?

[RichardCranium]

Where did I hear the other day that you're twice as likely to survive a heart attack in France? And it's well known that cancer survival rates are lower here than in than in most other first world countries:

From 2007, after 10 years of Labour's investment in the NHS:

UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe - Telegraph

It seems we could learn a few things from Poland, let alone France and Germany.

I suggest you listen to Radio 4's "More or Less" when it is on. Every time these statistics get trotted out by the politicians or media, More or Less rips them apart.

The countries of Europe do not, and never have, used the same definitions on death certificates. For example, France has "sudden death" which we do not. Most heart attacks in France go down as "sudden death". While we show far more deaths by heart attack than France, they have far more "sudden deaths" because we have none.

We have also become very good at post-mortems and classifying causes: "natural death" is getting rare. Other countries still use it for old people dying of cancer and other diseases so we appear to have have very bad heart and cancer death statistics with nobody dying of old age. In reality, we are living longer and often getting more and more varied treatment than countries which appear to be doing better.

These medical statistics between countries are not valid because they are not comparable - they are specifically picked by politicians and the media to make points or fill column inches.

[Green Mango]

Where did I hear the other day that you're twice as likely to survive a heart attack in France? And it's well known that cancer survival rates are lower here than in than in most other first world countries:

From 2007, after 10 years of Labour's investment in the NHS:

UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe - Telegraph



It seems we could learn a few things from Poland, let alone France and Germany.

Thats especially true in some parts of the country like the North West were past statistics have shown that cancer survival rates are not particularly good on a European basis.

Then again people can help themselves drink less alchol, don't smoke and eat a healthier diet ...

The extension of pub drinking hours looks like an especially stupid Labour government measure !

[VectraMan]

I wonder if we shouldn't go for a more privatised model as in France and Germany after all the NHS although offering good treatment doesn't pretend to be particularly efficient...

Where did I hear the other day that you're twice as likely to survive a heart attack in France? And it's well known that cancer survival rates are lower here than in than in most other first world countries:

From 2007, after 10 years of Labour's investment in the NHS:

UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe - Telegraph

Cancer survival rates in Britain are among the lowest in Europe, according to the most comprehensive analysis of the issue yet produced.

England is on a par with Poland despite the NHS spending three times more on health care.

It seems we could learn a few things from Poland, let alone France and Germany.

[Alf W]

- I warn you not to be ordinary

- I warn you not to be young

- I warn you not to fall ill

- I warn you not to get old.

[cojak]

A leftie contractor

Provided Bolshie doesn't have to pay for public services himself, obviously...

[Green Mango]

Well perhaps not if you cannot afford to pay for hip, hernia and knee operations. With budgets likely to be shifted to gP's, never mind, its not the tories fault.

Patient care at risk under NHS reforms, experts warn - Telegraph


Operations could be cancelled as GPs try to save money under a new system that gives them control of billion-pound budgets, it has been claimed.

Standards could also suffer as doctors give preference to local hospitals or cheap private providers rather than established regional centres of excellence, while clinicians are ignored under the revised arrangements.

Royal colleges, professional bodies, think tanks and charities have written briefings for MPs on the controversial Health and Social Care Bill ahead of its second reading in the Commons on Monday. They believe the scale and pace of change being imposed on the NHS is too great when it is being asked to find £20 billion of savings within four years

There is obviously risk in these reforms, but this is a prejudgement before the reforms have taken place.

The NHS was a good value for money service under the last Conservative government, if one with waiting lists and suffering from under investment.

Under the last Labour governments it became one of the most expensive health services in the world.

I don't believe it was left in a sustainable shape by the last Labour government, but I'd probably like to see a more cautious move to reform.

I'm not convinced the NHS is in good shape finanacially with all the PFI debts it gained in the last Labour government.

I wonder if we shouldn't go for a more privatised model as in France and Germany after all the NHS although offering good treatment doesn't pretend to be particularly efficient...