Reply to: Cameron gives his personal backing to contractors

[Paddy]

+1

The tories are on the side of contractors, on our side.
So we should be giving it a bit less of the icons and a bit more of the 's
I say well done Mr Cameron, and thank you.

Wrong then and wrong now

[vetran]

he was right this is the view from the Tories point of view. Unfortunately all the parties see contractors like that.

[barrydidit]

....and as we go for economic growth this government is getting right behind them.

[Ignis Fatuus]

One thing that has been missed out here is that Bob programmers rarely have more than a couple of years' experience and it can often show. I had always thought that Bobs considered coding quite low level from a professional stand point and hence didn't hang round coding if they could help it. There's a nice blog post about the mentality here:

Stuck in Code

That's interesting. You do see the same here to an extent, in fact it's part of why I'm contracting. I found out years ago that the pay for "just a programmer" was defined to be less than that for a manager, but the rate for a contractor was whetever it took to get the skills.

[Doggy Styles]

WHS. It's easy to be cynical, and they are after all politicians, but no party is ever going to be elected on a manifesto of supporting contractors. It's naive to think they're ever going to be "for us", but at least they're not against us in the same way as Labour.

Quite.

And he knows he's nailed his colours to the mast now, which will make it much more difficult to give us a kicking down the line. It is easy to be cynical about Cameron, but he didn't have to say that.

Also, compare Cameron's first statement about contractors with Labour's. In the pre-budget review of 1999, Gordon Brown simply sneaked the IR35 measure in as part something else, and Dawn Primarolo went straight on the attack and tried to demonise us for the next five years.

There is a big difference.

[The_Equalizer]

One thing that has been missed out here is that Bob programmers rarely have more than a couple of years' experience and it can often show. I had always thought that Bobs considered coding quite low level from a professional stand point and hence didn't hang round coding if they could help it. There's a nice blog post about the mentality here:

Stuck in Code

[Ignis Fatuus]

WHS. It's easy to be cynical, and they are after all politicians, but no party is ever going to be elected on a manifesto of supporting contractors. It's naive to think they're ever going to be "for us", but at least they're not against us in the same way as Labour.

Well, that is a good point. I don't want to be supported, all I want is to be left alone to get on with my life. The Tories might just let me do that (though their record is not as good as they think) but it just isn't in Labour's DNA.

[VectraMan]

I'm encoraged too. Labours starting point was we are slimey characters who deserve a good slapping tax wise at least Camerons tone is positive.

WHS. It's easy to be cynical, and they are after all politicians, but no party is ever going to be elected on a manifesto of supporting contractors. It's naive to think they're ever going to be "for us", but at least they're not against us in the same way as Labour.

[Ignis Fatuus]

...The linky says the company does not have to pay NI contribution as long as the employee is here for less than 52 weeks (1 yr).
....

That's pretty much normal. If you use your Ltd Co to contract in other countries you don't normally pay their NI either. I certainly wouldn't expect any complaints about that from a group of people who themselves are not famous for paying lots of NI.

[Ignis Fatuus]

I'm encoraged too. Labours starting point was we are slimey characters who deserve a good slapping tax wise at least Camerons tone is positive.

And the Conservatives' starting point is that what is important is the success of business. That BTW doesn't mean you and me, it means the client companies that are tired of having to pay so much for you and me.

Wise up, nobody thinks we're worth protecting.

[Green Mango]

It's good that the Tories have stood up at last and nailed their colours to the mast!

Hopefully we will be rewarded at some point in the future. Maybe the removal of IR35?

I'm encoraged too. Labours starting point was we are slimey characters who deserve a good slapping tax wise at least Camerons tone is positive.

[Green Mango]

UK contractors don't need to work long hours to get the job done. I spoke to an old manager who was told to replace an on shore team of 7 with an off shore team. They have upped the off-shore team to 25 and still can't get the work done.

Mmm we see the odd case were an Indian team fails, but I'm sure there must be many more cases were they succeed and at the fraction of the cost of a UK team.

The Indians (from India) I've worked with have generally seemed pretty good.

[Walsingham]

The average salary paid to Indian programmer is around £8k pa (Equivalent to 0.5 - 0.6 m in Indian Rupees). The linky says the company does not have to pay NI contribution as long as the employee is here for less than 52 weeks (1 yr).

What a business can do here is hire a team of developer in India, pay them 0.6 m Indian Rupees, bring them here for a year in small batch. Rent out a house in suburbs and house them. In all this would probably cost the company £15k PA per person, which is not cheaper than average graduate programmer.

The main reason why Indian IT professionals are sought after in USA atleast is not their cost or knowledge, but their attitude. Working from 8.30 to 21.00 is accepted standard for average Indian worker. I dont see any UK permie/contractor working these hours in that salary....

That's a laugh. I had to go into the office for the 3 days between last Christmas and New Year. The whole time the 3 indians on the next bank of desks sat around talking and surfing the net. They might be sat in the office all hours but they won't be working. The idea that they are genuinely more assiduous or productive than anyone else is a complete lie.

This was a publicly funded project by the way, paying foreign nationals UK tax payer's money to sit around and do nothing.

[OwlHoot]

UK contractors don't need to work long hours to get the job done. I spoke to an old manager who was told to replace an on shore team of 7 with an off shore team. They have upped the off-shore team to 25 and still can't get the work done.

Hehe - That's exactly what must be happening to the clientco team I was in last year (in Shaftesbury Avenue, NickFitz, if you read this ) The software was very old and intricate, with multiple paw prints all over it, dependent on a host of equally complex proprietary tools, and held together with sticking plaster. But some big wig in their ivory tower decided it was a smart idea to replace our team of 4 with a team of 6 based in Bangalore.

P.S. Must be getting pretty nippy in Zurich by now.

[MayContainNuts]

It's good that the Tories have stood up at last and nailed their colours to the mast!

Hopefully we will be rewarded at some point in the future. Maybe the removal of IR35?