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Previously on "Outrage over £30m torture hush money"

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  • Incognito
    replied
    Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
    BoyZone ?



    No, it's a typical Rhebel song. Loughgall was where the SAS ambushed the PIRA on their way to attack the local police station and Gibraltar was where the SAS took out the scum who were planning to attack the British soldiers on the rock. I believe it was the SAS 11 - PIRA 0 after those events.

    Minestrone showing his true colours here.

    Here's a song for you Minestrone.

    YouTube - The Soldier - The Sacrifice of the British Army in Ulster

    Dedicated to Sgt Michael Willetts GC

    The Queen has been graciously pleased to approve the posthumous award of the George Cross to:
    2391067 Sergeant Michael WILLETTS, The Parachute Regiment.

    At 8.24 p.m. on the evening of 25th May 1971, a terrorist entered the reception hall of the Springfield Road Police Station in Belfast. He carried a suitcase from which a smoking fuse protruded, dumped it quickly on the floor and fled outside. Inside the room were a man and a woman, two children and several police officers. One of the latter saw at once the smoking case and raised the alarm. The Police Officers began to organise the evacuation of the hall past the reception desk, through the reception office and out by a door into the rear passage.

    Sergeant Michael Willetts was on duty in the inner hall. Hearing the alarm, he sent an N.C.O. up to the first floor to warn those above and hastened himself to the door towards which a Police Officer was thrusting those in the reception hall and office. He held the door open while all passed safely through and then stood in the doorway, shielding those taking cover. In the next moment, the bomb exploded with terrible force.

    Sergeant Willetts was mortally wounded. His duty did not require him to enter the threatened area, his post was elsewhere. He knew well, after 4 months service in Belfast, the peril of going towards a terrorist bomb but he did not hesitate to do so. All those approaching the door from the far side agree that if they had had to check to open the door they would have perished. Even when they had reached the rear passage, Sergeant Willetts waited, placing his body as a screen to shelter them. By this considered act of bravery, he risked - and lost - his life for those of the adults and children. His selflessness, his courage are beyond praise. 22nd June 1971


    Viewing Page 6641 of Issue 45404

    In a station in the city, a British soldier stood
    Talking to the people there, if the people would
    Some just stared in hatred and others turned in pain
    And the lonely British soldier, wished he was back home again

    'Come join the British Army' said the posters in his town
    'See the world and have your fun, come serve before the Crown'
    The jobs were hard to come by and he could not face the dole
    So he took his country's shilling and enlisted on the roll

    For there was no fear of fighting, the Empire long was lost
    Just ten years in the army, getting paid for being bossed
    Then leave a man experienced, a man who's made the grade
    A medal and a pension, some memories and a trade

    Then came the call to Ireland as the call has come before
    Another bloody chapter in an endless Civil War
    The priests they stood on both sides, the priests they stood behind
    Another fight in Jesus' name, the blind against the blind

    The soldier stood between them, between the whistling stones
    And then the broken bottles, that led to broken bones
    The petrol bombs that burned his hand, the nails that pierced his skin
    And wished that he had stayed at home surrounded by his kin

    The station filled with people, the soldier soon was bored
    But better in the station than where the people warred
    The room filled up with mothers, with daughters and with sons
    Who stared with itchy fingers at the soldier and his guns

    A yell of fear, a screech of brakes, a shattering of glass
    The window of the station broke to let the package pass
    The scream came from the mothers as they ran toward the door
    Dragging children crying from the bomb upon the floor

    The soldier stood and could not move, his gun he could not use
    He knew the bomb had seconds left, not minutes on the fuse
    He could not run to pick it up and throw it on the street
    There were far too many people there, too many running feet.
    'Take cover' yelled the soldier, 'take cover for your lives'
    And the Irishmen threw down their young and stood before their wives
    They turned toward the soldier, their eyes alive with fear
    'For God's sake, save our children or they'll end their short lives here'

    The soldier moved towards the bomb, his stomach like a stone
    'Why was this his battle, God, why was he alone?'
    He lay down on the package and he murmured one farewell
    To those at home in England, to those he loved so well

    He saw the sights of summer, felt the wind upon his brow
    The young girls in the city park, how precious were they now
    The soaring of the swallow, the beauty of the swan
    The music of the turning earth, so soon it would be gone
    The muffled soft explosion and the room began to quake
    The soldier blown across the floor, his blood a crimson lake
    They never heard him cry or shout, they never heard him moan
    And they turned their children's' faces from the blood and from the bone

    The crowds outside soon gathered, and the ambulances came
    To carry off the body of a pawn lost to the game
    And the crowd they clapped and jeered, and they sang their rebel songs
    One soldier less to interfere where he did not belong

    And will the children growing up, learn at their mothers knee
    The story of the soldier who bought their liberty
    Who used his youthful body as the means towards the end
    Who gave his life to those, who called him 'murderer' not 'friend'

    Leave a comment:


  • AtW
    replied
    Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
    ok, so in your mind, some low level operative, who was having quick shufty, just to see how this stuff works, was in fact a diplomatic representative of HMG.
    No he wasn't, but the Govt must have been aware what's going on - if that low level operative did not report up the chain that British subjects are tortured then that operative should go to jail.

    Leave a comment:


  • EternalOptimist
    replied
    Originally posted by minestrone View Post
    Twas on a Sunday evening the sun was in the sky
    As he walked his way to the Gaelic pitch never thinking he was going to die
    But as he crossed the checkpoint the sound of gunfire came
    The news spread through the border town Aiden McAnespie was slain

    For years he was harassed by the forces of the crown
    As he went to his work every day he left his native town
    The soldiers swore they´d get him the reason no one can say
    And sure enough they murdered him in cold blood that sunny day

    Oh why did you do it?
    Have you not the guts to say
    You say it was an accident or even a ricochet
    But like Loughgall and Gibraltar you´re lies are well renowned
    You murdered Aiden McAnespie on his way to the Gaelic ground



    BoyZone ?



    Leave a comment:


  • minestrone
    replied
    Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
    ok, so in your mind, some low level operative, who was having quick shufty, just to see how this stuff works, was in fact a diplomatic representative of HMG.
    I seriously doubt that anyone involved saw any major gravity in the situation (apart from the guy getting whazzed, obv). I suspect that a lot of this stuff is casual in the extreme, and a lot of it is incidental and ad hoc.
    Maybe we should have a new AtW law 'only those who represent HMG in a diplomatic role can witness , influence or note, horrible things, just in case we ever get found out'



    Twas on a Sunday evening the sun was in the sky
    As he walked his way to the Gaelic pitch never thinking he was going to die
    But as he crossed the checkpoint the sound of gunfire came
    The news spread through the border town Aiden McAnespie was slain

    For years he was harassed by the forces of the crown
    As he went to his work every day he left his native town
    The soldiers swore they´d get him the reason no one can say
    And sure enough they murdered him in cold blood that sunny day

    Oh why did you do it?
    Have you not the guts to say
    You say it was an accident or even a ricochet
    But like Loughgall and Gibraltar you´re lies are well renowned
    You murdered Aiden McAnespie on his way to the Gaelic ground

    Leave a comment:


  • minestrone
    replied
    Originally posted by xoggoth View Post
    I don't think the British tortured them.
    oh FFS, they clearly tortured them, Bush has admited it, the British administration has admited it by the way of paying them money. If you are a member of a terroist organisation fighting the British goverment and you get caught you are going to get tortured, thems the rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • EternalOptimist
    replied
    Originally posted by AtW View Post
    This was essentially a diplomatic issue - one state (USA) hold in custody citizens/subject of another state.

    Word "demanding" in this diplomatic context is appropriate given gravity of situation (your subjects/citizens are tortured by another state).
    ok, so in your mind, some low level operative, who was having quick shufty, just to see how this stuff works, was in fact a diplomatic representative of HMG.
    I seriously doubt that anyone involved saw any major gravity in the situation (apart from the guy getting whazzed, obv). I suspect that a lot of this stuff is casual in the extreme, and a lot of it is incidental and ad hoc.
    Maybe we should have a new AtW law 'only those who represent HMG in a diplomatic role can witness , influence or note, horrible things, just in case we ever get found out'



    Leave a comment:


  • AtW
    replied
    Originally posted by EternalOptimist View Post
    But, AtW, do you really go about your life 'demanding' things of other individuals and organisations ?
    This was essentially a diplomatic issue - one state (USA) hold in custody citizens/subject of another state.

    Word "demanding" in this diplomatic context is appropriate given gravity of situation (your subjects/citizens are tortured by another state).

    Leave a comment:


  • EternalOptimist
    replied
    Originally posted by AtW View Post
    They were allegedly asked questions by MIx officers - if you just "question" suspect when someone else tortures them, then you can't absolve yourself from torture saying you just asked questions.

    Correct action would have been to demand release of all British citizens and deal with them under UK laws.
    well, I dont know the ins and outs of the cases, or the ins and outs of the operations of the intelligence services. But, AtW, do you really go about your life 'demanding' things of other individuals and organisations ?

    I dont mean in principle, I mean in reality


    Leave a comment:


  • xoggoth
    replied
    Can't say I have gone into the details either (CBA!) but don't think they were British citizens, just British residents. Lower degree of responsibility, if we have any at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • AtW
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr.Whippy View Post
    Haven't really been following it, but weren't they alleged to have passed questions to the CIA (or whoever had them) rather than actually being present to witness any torture?
    I doubt they witnessed any torture (not that stupid for sure) - I believe one of those guys said he was questioned by MIx officer in person, granted the whole affair stinks - paying off was sure smart way to get out of it, though I detest the fact that essentially criminal case is settled with cash.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr.Whippy
    replied
    Originally posted by AtW View Post
    They were allegedly asked questions by MIx officers - if you just "question" suspect when someone else tortures them, then you can't absolve yourself from torture saying you just asked questions.

    Correct action would have been to demand release of all British citizens and deal with them under UK laws.
    Haven't really been following it, but weren't they alleged to have passed questions to the CIA (or whoever had them) rather than actually being present to witness any torture?

    Leave a comment:


  • AtW
    replied
    Originally posted by xoggoth View Post
    why we are paying yet again for US actions I have no idea.
    They were allegedly asked questions by MIx officers - if you just "question" suspect when someone else tortures them, then you can't absolve yourself from torture saying you just asked questions.

    Correct action would have been to demand release of all British citizens and deal with them under UK laws.

    Leave a comment:


  • xoggoth
    replied
    I don't think the British tortured them. Certainly don't approve of state torture (*note) but quite why we are paying yet again for US actions I have no idea. If they must pay useless drug addict crap like Binyam Mohamed maybe they should then deduct the cost of all his welfare and legal bills.

    Note. Other than in the Hollywood film type scenario where Bruce Willis must find the nuclear bomb ticking away in New York but I doubt many cases fall into that category.

    PS I got stopped on a small country road in Sussex by a couple of Muslims today (I got the full inshalla stuff) who wanted money for petrol to travel to Manchester and offered me a genuine gold ring as surity. Yeh right. I gave them 2 quid, I will always trust anyone to that extent, and told them to try the next vehicle. They might be there a long time.

    Leave a comment:


  • EternalOptimist
    replied
    I personally would volunteer to take 13 amps through the nut-sack if it meant seeing Blair going to jail for 30 years

    so I think we should stand up and salute these guys for taking one for the team.


    well done , Imran, Abdul and Idi. (and the rest)

    If anyone from HMGTorture is watching, you can come round and pick me up anytime. I would like to exercise my right of substitution at this point, and let you know that a fellow called AtW will do the neccessary (ps. he's scared of water)




    Leave a comment:


  • Incognito
    replied
    Originally posted by AtW View Post
    Be grateful he is not threatening you with knowing one half of family for those who got the money and threatening to get their lawyers onto you.


    With his Meths fuddled grasp of the law I'm sure I'd be okay.

    Leave a comment:

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