Reply to: Anyone know if it's legal to charge credit card before despatching goods?

[Platypus]

OFT info

In summary: They should have told you sooner but only if If they refuse the refund then you have a case

Thanks! That's what I needed to know.

[Halo Jones]

OFT info

In summary: They should have told you sooner but only if If they refuse the refund then you have a case

[RichardCranium]

Well not really - silly me for believing them when they said it was in stock and would ship in 3 days?

When a friend at the other end of the country had a baby, I thought buying a present on-line and having it delivered direct to her was best.

I placed my order, making sure the product was marked as "in stock". I paid extra for the quick delivery. I clicked on the option for gift-wrapping and for a card to be included. (During the payment process, it never did ask me what to put on the card.)

Two weeks later I was wondering what had happened when I get an email saying they will credit my account with the cost of the item as not only was it not in stock, it never will be.

So my friend never got the present.

My account had been debited when I placed the order.

The name of this useless, lying, untrustworthy, disappointing, on-line retailer? mothercare.com



For the flat we are now in I used a local independent furniture shop. We needed a bed, urgently, and a chest of drawers. We paid for delivery and it was promised in a couple of days.

His supplier let him down, then his van broke down, then his mate was off sick, and it took two weeks to arrive during which time we slept on the floor.

Meanwhile, of course, we had already paid in the shop when we placed the order.



The reality is: everything is tulip in rip-off Britain.

[centurian]

That's not quite true. When Platypus ordered, they would have obtained authorisation from his bank for the transaction, which protects them. His account will have that amount "reserved" for the merchant for some period (I've forgotten how long), but not actually paid until shipping.

That's how it worked when I ordered a gas fire. I got an automated anti-fraud phone call from the credit card company as soon as they processed the order - as I hadn't used the card for some time, but nothing was debited from the card. It was only debited a week later when they despatched the goods.

[Platypus]

Bloody serves you right for buying online.

Well not really - silly me for believing them when they said it was in stock and would ship in 3 days? Maybe.

Bet you had a look at one in someones shop first, measured it, touched it, wasted the shopkeepers time then went off and found it 10% cheaper on line.

What a clever shopper I am you thought.

No, I wouldn't do that. I didn't see the item in a shop. If I had done, I would have bought it from the shop. I believe in supporting local traders and shop-keepers. As it happens I've ordered the same item from another supplier today, at 15% MORE than the first lot of jokers, on their promise of 48-hour delivery. It's about service, not price.

Did you know(I bet you don't) that the vast majority of online retailers who purport to undercut on furniture don't actually stock any of it. Those 30 - 50% cheaper than the high street companies base it on the fact that they have images from suppliers. They always say in stock, in fact they have to wait to get your money, then have it sent to them and then resend it.

This has become apparent. I did however email this company beforehand to ask if the item was in stock and when it would ship. They said yes it's in stock, will ship in 3 days. This directly influenced my choice of supplier and I felt confident enough to place the order. Had they been honest from the start about the lead time, I might well have still placed my order with them. I'm a bit fickle when it comes to honesty. My bad.

Don't buy furniture online, but it from independent retailers who will give you a cracking service, probably a discount, free delivery and 12 months guarantee.

After this, my only foray into on-line furniture, I will do exactly that, as I have in fact always done in the past.

EDIT: I did buy a picnic-style table for my garden during the summer. It arrived within a week, as expected. First class service. This must be the exception not the rule.

What was it anyway?

Just a wardrobe !

[RichardCranium]

It gets swiped, we wait three days and then we get the money. It is illegal to keep card details/security code for any period of time.

The car hire place I use has been using my card details since March. The removals people we just used have had my card details for about 18 months; they used the details from the move before last to take payment.

Scary, innit?

How many people's card details do they have in that filing cabinet / shoe box / in-tray / pinned to the noticeboard / Access database?

[xoggoth]

Although as I said earlier we had to agree to and meet all Worldpay's conditions on refunds, including having our refund policies stated on the website. They inspect sites before approval and from time to time thereafter. If a site does not have a clear refund policy, including how long buyers should be expected to wait for delivery, there may be grounds for complaint to whichever company handles the card purchases.

[MarillionFan]

Can't see how it can work like that, they don't know if it has been shipped. We take card payments online, or rather we send them to the RBS Worldpay page which does. At no point in the procedure is there any confirmation from us to Worldpay that the goods have been dispatched. The various stages of acceptance and confirmation depend only on the communications between Worldpay and the card provider. If there is a problem with the goods supplied the buyer has to request a refund.

WXS.

It gets swiped, we wait three days and then we get the money. It is illegal to keep card details/security code for any period of time. It is processed there and then.

[MarillionFan]

I take exception to that!

When delivery is quoted at 3 days at the time of order, and the item is shown as "in stock". Then a week later the item is out of stock and not due in for another 10 days, I'd call that breach of contract.

Bloody serves you right for buying online.

Bet you had a look at one in someones shop first, measured it, touched it, wasted the shopkeepers time then went off and found it 10% cheaper on line.

What a clever shopper I am you thought.

Did you know(I bet you don't) that the vast majority of online retailers who purport to undercut on furniture don't actually stock any of it. Those 30 - 50% cheaper than the high street companies base it on the fact that they have images from suppliers. They always say in stock, in fact they have to wait to get your money, then have it sent to them and then resend it.

Don't buy furniture online, but it from independent retailers who will give you a cracking service, probably a discount, free delivery and 12 months guarantee.

What was it anyway?

[xoggoth]

His account will have that amount "reserved" for the merchant for some period (I've forgotten how long), but not actually paid until shipping.

Can't see how it can work like that, they don't know if it has been shipped. We take card payments online, or rather we send them to the RBS Worldpay page which does. At no point in the procedure is there any confirmation from us to Worldpay that the goods have been dispatched. The various stages of acceptance and confirmation depend only on the communications between Worldpay and the card provider. If there is a problem with the goods supplied the buyer has to request a refund.

[TestMangler]

When I had a computer shop back in 2001, the rules (and by that I mean merchant account rules from Cardnet) were that you were not allowed to charge the card until the 'items were available for dispatch'. This obviously only applied to 'Cardholder Not Present' transactions.

[Platypus]

Did you use a Visa card for the purchase?

No, mastercard

[Doggy Styles]

I take exception to that!

When delivery is quoted at 3 days at the time of order, and the item is shown as "in stock". Then a week later the item is out of stock and not due in for another 10 days, I'd call that breach of contract.

Did you use a Visa card for the purchase?

[Platypus]

As has been shown here, the OP is a petulant shopper that retailers can do without.

I take exception to that!

When delivery is quoted at 3 days at the time of order, and the item is shown as "in stock". Then a week later the item is out of stock and not due in for another 10 days, I'd call that breach of contract.

[Doggy Styles]

As has been shown here, the OP is a petulant shopper that retailers can do without.

BTW I'm sorry, I was talking about credit cards, and Visa in particular. It's Visa rules, not the rule of law.