Reply to: Budget hits the "poorest" hardest!!

[original PM]

oh plz ngga

having just come back from my holiday I thought I would add my thrupence.

1) On the original topic - yes budget cuts will hit the poor and yes a significant proportion of the poor are lazy gets who do not wish to work. However (and I have first hand experience of this) many people who are born into 'poor' families still manage to get an education and become 'not' poor. Like wise there are many people who are born into a 'not' poor family and end up poor because they are bone idle.

As the argument seemed to say - you have to cut the welfare so people do not see it as a viable option to having a job but they know uf they do fall on hard times they will not starve death.

2) Drugs - yawn yawn yawn how many times are these fact/factoids etc trotted out about drugs. You need to legalise cannabis which would generate revenue. It would also remove the need to score off dealers who will also be able to seel you something else (harder normally!).

Any way it's great to be back off holiday and offer my ill informed opinion.

and as for single mothers - well lets be honest if you pull one you normally get proper filthy sex

erm allegedly

[xoggoth]

A daft analogy. Prohibition cracked down unecessarily on a drug that the vast majority of people can imbibe sensibly, which is not addictive for most and which, in moderation, causes no major health issues.

Is it really comparable to crack cocaine that leaves addicts craving for the next fix at any cost, with skunk cannabis or LSD or speed that can cause major psychiatric problems, with a whole range of drugs whose effects can trigger heart attacks even in the healthy?

[doodab]

The Swiss seem to have the most effictive system for tackling drugs.

Clinics where addicts can get their drugs and use them on the premises combined with medical staff who will help them come off drugs if they want. Many addicts do want to come off drugs and have done so.

This combined with education about the danger of drugs has I believed been effective there.

I think it's also a question of perception, and that's partly down to the way they handle addicts as well. Rather than associating drugs with rock stars and being cool and rebellious the younger Swiss people I have met (not a huge number, to be fair) seem to view drugs as something that sad middle aged people do.

[Gonzo]

I disagree. We have a cracking real-life experiment in what happens when you crack down on one of the ills of society, the massive problems that spring up overnight, then the decades it takes to solve those problems. Just look at prohibition in the USA, its a real lesson. no one in their right mind would suggest bringing back prohibition to give the baddies something to occupy them

Exactly.

[EternalOptimist]

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Everyone can see that the current approach to tackling drugs is a complete waste of time and no-one could credibly claim that doing more of the same thing is the effective thing to do.

However, the societal problems caused by the current approach do not effect the ruling classes so they are quite happy for things to continue as they are because it keeps the criminals out of their hair.

I disagree. We have a cracking real-life experiment in what happens when you crack down on one of the ills of society, the massive problems that spring up overnight, then the decades it takes to solve those problems. Just look at prohibition in the USA, its a real lesson. no one in their right mind would suggest bringing back prohibition to give the baddies something to occupy them

[Gonzo]

The snag is if you legalize drugs then all the scumbags who make a living out of them will move on to something even more unpleasant, like mugging or kidnapping for ransom etc.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

Everyone can see that the current approach to tackling drugs is a complete waste of time and no-one could credibly claim that doing more of the same thing is the effective thing to do.

However, the societal problems caused by the current approach do not effect the ruling classes so they are quite happy for things to continue as they are because it keeps the criminals out of their hair.

[shaunbhoy]

The snag is if you legalize drugs then all the scumbags who make a living out of them will move on to something even more unpleasant, like mugging or kidnapping for ransom etc.

IIRC, a lot of junkies already fund their habit by doing these activities. Well, perhaps not as far as the ransom stuff, as they would not be compos mentis enough to coordinate it. But some fairly unsavoury activities nonetheless.

[EternalOptimist]

The snag is if you legalize drugs then all the scumbags who make a living out of them will move on to something even more unpleasant, like mugging or kidnapping for ransom etc.

No, I think the idea is to remove a lucrative job opportunity from them

[Green Mango]

Well the aim is to get people off drugs. There is no magic formula that works, what works for some won't work for others and to my knowledge no society has this one sussed completely.

The secondary aim, is at east to minimise the impact on society from the associated crime that comes with junkies. Methadone pro grammes etc.

I'm 100% certain that pulling their benefits won't solve it, and would result in increased costs to society with the resultant crime increase from this measure.

The Swiss seem to have the most effictive system for tackling drugs.

Clinics where addicts can get their drugs and use them on the premises combined with medical staff who will help them come off drugs if they want. Many addicts do want to come off drugs and have done so.

This combined with education about the danger of drugs has I believed been effective there.

[snaw]

Just for the record snaw. What exactly WOULD be your strategy for dealing with junkies on benefits?

Well the aim is to get people off drugs. There is no magic formula that works, what works for some won't work for others and to my knowledge no society has this one sussed completely.

The secondary aim, is at east to minimise the impact on society from the associated crime that comes with junkies. Methadone pro grammes etc.

I'm 100% certain that pulling their benefits won't solve it, and would result in increased costs to society with the resultant crime increase from this measure.

[OwlHoot]

Not a bad idea.

The snag is if you legalize drugs then all the scumbags who make a living out of them will move on to something even more unpleasant, like mugging or kidnapping for ransom etc.

[shaunbhoy]

That is true, but for every genius there are thousands of dunces who talk like a dunce, act like a dunce and are in fact dunces of the first degree. Believe me, if anybody knows that it is I, sasguru.........Prince of Dunces!

HTH

FTFY

[sasguru]

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

That is true, but for every genius there are thousands of dunces who talk like a dunce, act like a dunce and are in fact dunces of the first degree. You, SB, clearly belong to the latter category.

HTH

[EternalOptimist]

Not a bad idea.

Could be good for the taxpayers alliance as well, they could do with some new blood. I can just picture the first meeting, with 'MuleMaster Mangler' the recently installed assistant spokesman on 'relaxation taxation'

'Dis is bad mon. Totaaally baad. pass de ganga mon. from de left hand side. NO TAXATION WITHOUT err ....what wus I saying mon????'

[shaunbhoy]

Legalize drugs, tax them to high heaven, and get most of the money back.

Not a bad idea.