Reply to: Especially for Paddy - justice in action in Iran

[SupremeSpod]

Why do you insist on trying to have a rational debate with AtW?

Time and again he proves himself to know f**k all about f**k all.

I reckon he just does it to wind you up.

Spod - In "Thank f**k AtW is on my ignore list" mode!

[shaunbhoy]

AtW you have just shown your complete and utter ignorance.

Over 20,000 times...............

[Paddy]

Q AtW That "terrible" Israeli justice system has got a lot to "learn" from friendly state of Iran. Two wrong don’t make a right. If you want to be an apologist for an apartheid regime that is up to you.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The case you quote in Iran is an old and well know one, you are slow to pick that up. There is no need to lecture me about atrocities in Iran because I certainly know more about them than you. Young women are raped in prison before being put to death so that they won’t go to heaven. There is far more to say but I am sure you can look it up.

What is less well known is that Iran has one of the high number of Jews and synagogues of any country bar the USA and Israel. The former Sha of Iran executed and imprisoned thousands of people and his secret police Savak was run by Mosad. It is no wonder there is animosity.

The regime is Iran is abhorrent but making up lies against the country just like the west did against Iraq will only unify the people in the same way that mad mullahs would call for the overthrow of the British constitution.

AtW you have just show your complete and utter ignorance.

[lukemg]

Please try not to ascribe your cosy middle class western values to human rights abuses around the world. China is killing them by the thousands, most of Africa is a brutal game of ‘winner takes all’ as it has been for millennia, which no-one cares about and most of the middle east is a sandy, windblown sh!thole with ancient structures of state and few redeeming characteristics beyond the oil beneath it, without that, there would be no interest in the place.
Trying to impose western ‘democracy’ and other structures on countries that don’t want them has led to millions of deaths so far and is essentially futile.
War on terror is a myth based on US requirement for revenge after ‘9/11’ and as the ex head of the intelligence service stated – this increased the homegrown threat massively which is where almost every plot has come from.
Get the hell out and leave them to it, the carrot (ask China and Russia) is that they will be vastly better off with a stable regime trading with the west than not.

[AtW]

So what? A system of justice that is unjust is not a system of justice. The degree of injustice is irrelevant. You either do it right or you do it wrong. Saying that one turd has a less offensive odour than another means nothing: they're still turds.

Justice is a relevant thing - in UK there is no proper defence of freedom of speech for example, unlike USA where it is very strongly protected, so a number of cases here are "unjust" in relation to USA.

[doodab]

I used to get stoned a lot.

It never killed me, it just made me really hungry.

[TimberWolf]

When I looked at the Wiki on Stoning yesterday, Iraq was notably missing from the list of countries that still practise stoning. An oasis of civilisation and tranquillity amongst a sea of heathens. Did we bomb the right country?

[Mich the Tester]

...simulation of drawning without actually being killed to death.

Have you ever been killed to anywhere else?

[NickFitz]

This however shows that Israel's justice system is far less barbaric than that of countries that are around it.

So what?

A system of justice that is unjust is not a system of justice. The degree of injustice is irrelevant. You either do it right or you do it wrong.

Saying that one turd has a less offensive odour than another means nothing: they're still turds.

[AtW]

Sounds almost as bad as waterboarding.

I don't agree with waterboarding which in my view is torture in violation of Geneva convention as well as other international laws, however it has to be said here that stoning to death and crusifiction to death are much worse than simulation of drawning without actually being killed to death.

9 out of 10 sockies on CUK would prefer waterboarding for sure :

[TimberWolf]

Bunch of bleeding heart liberals compared to the Sudan:

Sudan's penal code, based upon the government's interpretation of Shari'a, provides for execution by crucifixion. The sentence has been passed as recently as 2002, when 88 people were condemned.
Crucifixion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds almost as bad as waterboarding.

[AtW]

And this is supposed to justify Israel's wrongdoings is it?

No.

This however shows that Israel's justice system is far less barbaric than that of countries that are around it.

[shaunbhoy]

Iran stoning case woman fainted on hearing sentence, says cellmate

A former cellmate of a woman sentenced to death by stoning in Iran, who spent two years in prison with her and accompanied her to the court when she received the news of her punishment, has told the Guardian how the woman, Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, fainted in shock after hearing the verdict.

"It was in mid-November 2008 when the guards woke us up unexpectedly and told Sakineh and me that we should get ready for the court," said Shahnaz Gholami, 42, whose political activities in support of Azari minorities put her in jail for more than four years in Iran. Gholami, an active blogger, is seeking asylum in Paris.

Later that morning, the officials handcuffed Mohammadi Ashtiani and Gholami and took them to the court. Gholami said: "During the 15-minute journey to the court from the prison, she was just worried for her children, but she was not expecting anything even a bit close to the stoning. When we met once again after the court, she was appalled, absolutely speechless."

The 43-year-old mother of two fainted in shock when they returned to the prison, Gholami said. "For days, she was like a ghost wandering in shock, but when she came back to her senses, she just cried and I didn't see her without crying until the last day I spent time with her in prison."

The Guardian brought Mohammadi Ashtiani's plight to international attention on 3 July. Since then the case has drawn condemnation worldwide and a huge number of politicians, human rights activists and celebrities have joined the campaign for her release. In response, Iran has banned local media from reporting on the case.

Gholami – whose comments cannot be independently verified – said Mohammadi Ashtiani was tortured inside Tabriz prison. "Because of her loving nature, even her malicious cellmates kept distance from her, but the guards couldn't let her live at ease. She was flogged as a part of her sentence, but beside that she was beaten up severely by the guards." According to Gholami, Mohammadi Ashtiani has been refused access to writing materials.

"Until that day she was a calm, ordinary woman whose beauty made prisoners and the guards jealous. She didn't like trouble with other women in the block we were kept in, and because of that she was always alone," Gholami said.

Since May 2006, Mohammadi Ashtiani has been kept in room four of the eighth block of Tabriz prison, in the capital of Iran's East Azerbaijan province. She shares a room with 25 women who are mostly accused of murder. She was originally sentenced to 99 lashes for adultery, but her case was reopened when a court in Tabriz suspected her of murdering her husband. She was acquitted, but the adultery charge was reviewed and the death penalty handed down on the basis of "judge's knowledge". In Iran, officials consider adultery worse than murder, Gholami said.

"To be among those murderers and live with them is a daily torture for Sakineh, whose tender nature had made her exceptional in the block for everyone," Gholami said.

Iran's judiciary has since changed the sentence, following the international outcry, to execution by hanging "because she is convicted of murder". However, a copy of the document detailing the stoning sentence, which was disclosed to the Guardian by Mina Ahadi, of the Iran Committee against Stoning (ICAS), shows that she was convicted of adultery, not murder.

Ahadi said: "In adultery cases, women are sentenced because of the complaints from their husbands or families generally, but surprisingly, Sakineh is sentenced to death by stoning not because the family of her husband have made a complaint against her, but because the Tabriz prosecutor has made a complaint. In other words, it's the authorities in Iran who want Sakineh to be stoned to death."

Ahadi, who is in regular contact with the families of women sentenced to stoning in Iran, has been told recently that Mariam Ghorbanzadeh, 25, a current cellmate of Mohammadi Ashtiani who has been sentenced to death by stoning, is pregnant. The sentence has not been changed.

After a short visit to his mother in prison last Thursday, Mohammadi Ashtiani's son Sajad told the Guardian that she fears she may be executed without prior notice to her lawyer, especially now that Iran has issued an arrest warrant for Mohammad Mostafaei, the lawyer who represented her until recently. Mostafaei is believed to be hiding from officials after his relatives were imprisoned.

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That "terrible" Israeli justice system has got a lot to "learn" from friendly state of Iran

And this is supposed to justify Israel's wrongdoings is it?



Akin to trying to justify your neighbour's burglary simply because the guy round the corner commits murder. Pathetic.

[AtW]

I think her case is up for review and higher courts usually over-rule lower court's stoning sentences, according to the Wiki.

Only those that get public enough to cause embarassment.

[TimberWolf]

The West is far more civilised. We take them to the point of a watery death several times daily or electrocute them. Is stoning any worse than that? And are women allowed at stonings or do they have to dress up as men?

I think her case is up for review and higher courts usually over-rule lower court's stoning sentences, according to the Wiki.