Reply to: Are we just a random collection of atoms?

[gingerjedi]

Thought experiment:

Lets say we replace one atom of you. Would you notice that? ...I think not

So lets say we go round and replace one atom at a time....would you notice that?...no

Now we've replaced all your atoms, and we built a new you with atoms we took out, and put them exactly in the same place...OK

Which is you, the one whose atoms have been replaced or the new constructed you, using the old atoms?

A sort of 'Theseus paradox' or 'Triggers broom' as we call it in the UK.

Last nights 'Story of science' was outstanding if a little disturbing, it looks as though I'm not a free man after all.

[threaded]

It ends everywhere with everything getting very, very cold and dark.

Yes.

That's an old idea. I quite like the idea of the Hubble constant increasing so you'll look up at the sky and the stars will start blinking out, then going out at an increasing rate, and then to a point where atoms just fly apart

[Churchill]

It ends everywhere with everything getting very, very cold and dark.

Yes.

They reckon your hearing is the last to go.

"I SAID THEY RECKON IT'S YOUR HEARING THAT'S LAST TO GO!!!"

[HairyArsedBloke]

Where (and how) is it all going to end is the next big question. That and was it all futile.

It ends everywhere with everything getting very, very cold and dark.

Yes.

[TimberWolf]

Where (and how) is it all going to end is the next big question. That and was it all futile.

[HairyArsedBloke]

I believe so.
And if you think we're something more, what's your evidence?

<mode type="sensible">
Yes 'we' are. All 'life' is more than a collection of atoms.

Especially in the higher forms, an individual identity is an emergent property of the collection of atoms.

This is really basic stuff.

</mode>

[Churchill]

Just atoms, but not a random collection. An improbable collection that took the universe 15 billion years to assemble.

Every 15 Billion years or so there's a throwback, we like to call ours sasguru...

[HairyArsedBloke]

Take a ride in threaded's time machine and there is a very good chance that you'll not even be classed as a 'collection'.

[TimberWolf]

Just atoms, but not a random collection. An improbable collection that took the universe 15 billion years to assemble.

[NickFitz]

We obviously aren't a random collection of atoms, for there is non-random order both in the molecules formed by the atoms and in the overall structure of the human body. If the atoms in a human body were randomly arranged, you'd just get a load of gas and a few crystalline solids.

[Moscow Mule]

It's a bit like getting older. I'm older than I was when I started typing this message, but the difference is imperceptible. The difference tomorrow will be negligible. But over a decade there's a noticeable difference. So which nano-second was it where I got old?

It was that one, just gone. Grandad.

[mudskipper]

Thought experiment:

Lets say we replace one atom of you. Would you notice that? ...I think not

So lets say we go round and replace one atom at a time....would you notice that?...no

Now we've replaced all your atoms, and we built a new you with atoms we took out, and put them exactly in the same place...OK

Which is you, the one whose atoms have been replaced or the new constructed you, using the old atoms?

It's a bit like getting older. I'm older than I was when I started typing this message, but the difference is imperceptible. The difference tomorrow will be negligible. But over a decade there's a noticeable difference. So which nano-second was it where I got old?

[mudskipper]

The alternative is the teleological argument - the idea that something as complex as life couldn't have happened randomly, so there must be some 'creator'.

I'm on the fence meself...

[Bunk]

Thought experiment:

Lets say we replace one atom of you. Would you notice that? ...I think not

So lets say we go round and replace one atom at a time....would you notice that?...no

Now we've replaced all your atoms, and we built a new you with atoms we took out, and put them exactly in the same place...OK

Which is you, the one whose atoms have been replaced or the new constructed you, using the old atoms?

For gods sake don't make a second Sas, one's bad enough.

[Moscow Mule]

Thought experiment:

Lets say we replace one atom of you. Would you notice that? ...I think not

So lets say we go round and replace one atom at a time....would you notice that?...no

Now we've replaced all your atoms, and we built a new you with atoms we took out, and put them exactly in the same place...OK

Which is you, the one whose atoms have been replaced or the new constructed you, using the old atoms?

Note to self - RTFQ.

It's the one which is self aware. If both are self aware, it's both of them.