Reply to: Jabberwocky - read carefully

[Fungus]

Jabber, stop this latest "reasonable" character. The feckwit was more fun.

Indeed. If Jabberwocky has reformed, who on earth will we put in the large wicker effigy surrounded by piles of kindling that we've built?

Fungus

[wendigo100]

Jabber, stop this latest "reasonable" character. The feckwit was more fun.

[OwlHoot]

Jabber, FWIW I reckon you were right the first time.

[Jabberwocky]

Tony, I must apologise for using that unfornate word - what I was getting at was a contract using a niche skill, for which the employer gives you a high rate. However, subsequently it might be difficult to find a similar contract and maintain that rate, and maintain your value or worth. Of course the point is now mute given that I accept that you are worth what you earn. I merely state this as explanation of my earlier post and in no way do I wish to annoy the moderators here further.

[BoredBloke]

Clue is in the name Tony, bit like the word as*hole.

But what does it mean?

4. You one get a one-off contract.

Are you trying to say that one individual gets a one off contract?

[DodgyAgent]

I fully appreciate your point of view as a fellow contractor and that this is a contractor board where there is little room for socialist viewpoints. We live and breathe the free market, it is our lifeblood, our livelihood and our way of life. I would also like to thank for moderators for their advice on this matter and thank them for their continuing support.

If you look back at your posts you dont actually argue any "socialist" view point at all. You instead reel off meaningless cliches that your lot have always used to manipulate guilt in order to gain power.

[Jabberwocky]

I fully appreciate your point of view as a fellow contractor and that this is a contractor board where there is little room for socialist viewpoints. We live and breathe the free market, it is our lifeblood, our livelihood and our way of life. I would also like to thank for moderators for their advice on this matter and thank them for their continuing support.

[Fungus]

Please accept my sincere apologies for any personal abuse that may have slipped through in my previous posts. I now fully accept that you are worth what you earn, indeed I am worth what I earn. It is a clear and simple definition and I have amended my belief system accordingly.

If you had read my earlier posting you would have seen that I do not follow such a simplistic mantra as "I am worth what I earn". As an IT contractor I earn what I can get and by contracting I have a better bargaining position than as a permie. And the increased ease of laying me off compared to a permie also makes me more desirable when a client needs short term work doing. I accept the risk and the client pays me more. Surely you know that? Or maybe 17 years is too short a time to learn such self evident truths?

In general in this life, you have to take risks if you want money. You rant on about unfairness and injustice, but quite often those who earn a lot do so by taking risks, as opposed to those who do comfortable safe modestly paid jobs.

The problem with socialism is that it wants to reward everyone, including those who take no risks.

Fungus

[Lucifer Box]

Oh yes I am an IT contractor actually, just one with a little vision to see beyond one line definitions.

Are you still an American fundamentalist Christian as well, or was that for last week only?

[Jabberwocky]

Please accept my sincere apologies for any personal abuse that may have slipped through in my previous posts. I now fully accept that you are worth what you earn, indeed I am worth what I earn. It is a clear and simple definition and I have amended my belief system accordingly.

[Fungus]

Let's go to the dictionary fu*kwits:

worth

The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable: the worth of higher education.
Material or market value: stocks having a worth of ten million dollars.
A quantity of something that may be purchased for a specified sum or by a specified means: ten dollars' worth of natural gas; wanted their money's worth.
Wealth; riches: her net worth.
Quality that commands esteem or respect; merit: a person of great worth.

As you can see there are a number of definitions, and the free market is never mentioned. Xog's trite little definition is simplistic claptrap. I suggest you all get back to your little contracting w*nkfest.

Oh yes I am an IT contractor actually, just one with a little vision to see beyond one line definitions.

If you intend to argue a case in the English language, you need to obey the normal rules of grammar. If you don't then no-one will understand what you are saying. Your original post was largely unintelligible.

When you say the following:

"Let's go to the dictionary fu*kwits:"

and

"I suggest you all get back to your little contracting w*nkfest."

It makes it clear that you cannot argue your case based on evidence and instead resort to personal abuse.

And I don't believe that you are an IT contractor. You can't be over 17 given your poor grammar and abusive manner.

Fungus

[xoggoth]

Look up a dictionary, end of argument. But semantics never ends any argument. In English "worth" does not have a certain meaning defined by common and established usage, rather it has several meanings, plural, and some of those you correctly quote are not remotely the same. And of those, "A quantity of something that may be purchased for a specified sum or by a specified means" is exactly the definition I am driving at.

The principle, since you have clearly not grasped it, is that subjective measures of anything whatever can have no meaning since they are subjective and therefore cannot be known with any surety. We should stick only with what we know and can be measured. It does not matter if this is a true or a worthwhile measure, it is the only measure we have that is worth the term. In a material world the only measure of worth is material benefit.

[Jabberwocky]

Let's go to the dictionary fu*kwits:

worth

The quality that renders something desirable, useful, or valuable: the worth of higher education.
Material or market value: stocks having a worth of ten million dollars.
A quantity of something that may be purchased for a specified sum or by a specified means: ten dollars' worth of natural gas; wanted their money's worth.
Wealth; riches: her net worth.
Quality that commands esteem or respect; merit: a person of great worth.

As you can see there are a number of definitions, and the free market is never mentioned. Xog's trite little definition is simplistic claptrap. I suggest you all get back to your little contracting w*nkfest.

Oh yes I am an IT contractor actually, just one with a little vision to see beyond one line definitions.

[Fungus]

"This is the sort banal meaningless rhetoric that people spout on here and I that I am here to correct."

What does "and I that I am here to correct" mean?

"If you are on the bench your worth is nothing."

What does that mean?

"Normal people don't do things for money purely for money so they make take a lower paid job than they could actually get."

Poor grammar. But the meaning creeps through. Just. Most people do work to earn money and the amount is important.

"You one get a one-off contract."

What does that mean?

"Nepotism, cronyism, elitism, facism - people do hiring."

Que?

"You might be overpaid/underpaid relative to the market through variation in salary."

I am always overpaid compared to permies. That's why I contract.

"Your value to a business is how much many you make them - not how much they pay you."

A statement of the bleedin' obvious but what point are you trying to make?

"It is a meaningless trite definition bourne out of ignorance and sexual frustration. Please stop using it."

Your spelling is BORN out of ignorance of the English language. I'm not sure what point you wish to make.

You know Cock-Jockey you are not an IT contractor are you?

If you were, you would know that most companies operate on the bulltulip principle. They try to employ the most capable people that they can, persuade them that they are not worth much and must try harder, and squeeze as much as they can out of them. That includes working unpaid overtime. Some companies stress their employees so much that they suffer physical and/or mental illness. Basically you are just one resource to be used as and when needed.

Whereas if you are an IT contractor, you do the same sort of work as permies, but get paid twice as much, you are treated with much more respect, and you get to learn new tricks. And there's much less politics to worry about as you are not competition for permies.

Anyway, that's my experience. But then again I'm good at what I do. Maybe you're not which is why you are so full of hatred and envy.

So, get a contract, earn some money, and drop that socialist bulltulip nonsense. Don't thank me now but you will.

Fungus

[xoggoth]

Worth to whom ? Becks is worth nothing to me, but plenty to Posh

That just shows you have totally failed to grasp the point. Worth is not some relative measure judged by artistic value or merit according to some arcane judgement, it is absolute and measured only by income. If either you or Posh or the football fans or uncle Tom Cobbley or Saddam Hussain had paid him his 40k a week or whatever it is then he is worth it by definition.

It is quite true that the free market does not operate throughout society. It does not operate when wealth is used to create priviledge. In the latter it is not just about the wealthy and powerful be able to afford more, it is about the wealthy and powerful using their riches and power to exclude others.

However, the case of Beckham you cite is as near a case of true market forces in operation as any one can think of. He earns what he does because, quite regardless of his sporting merit (on which I cannot comment as I know FA about football) people will pay to see him. Once he becomes useless and people are no longer interested in him the money will diminish very rapidly.

9. Your value to a business is how much many you make them - not how much they pay you.

We are not talking about the money somebody generates for others, but about the income they have. If the two are not related perhaps a) the business is an idiot b) They are sensible enough to take advantage of an idiot. But again you miss the point. If you save them millions per annum and only get £20 an hour you are worth precisely the latter figure. You can't sell yourself properly. Tough.