Reply to: I was thinking about thinking

[RichardCranium]

I was thinking about thinking

I hope that was in ClientCo time.

Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance by Rob Pirsig has been panned by another poster as being rubbish. I actually liked it a lot, it was accessible and relevant

I can see many would have thought it rubbish; if they have never had cause to doubt their own mind, or no empathy.

I avoided ZAMM because I thought it would be pants because it was hyped about. When I eventually read it, I felt I had found someone who could explain why it is OK to not be OK sometimes.

Some pages I had to go back and read and re-read quite a few times as I related his thoughts to memories of thoughts I had had.

And it certainly made One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest even more scarifying*.

I don't think I would ever recommend it to a teenager.


* Sorry, HAB

[mudskipper]

Now you are either pulling my plonker, in which case 10/10, or you are serious, in which case read Pirsig

Maybe ISO9001 has the answer.

I read Plato's Laches once - dull, yet strangely fascinating...

[threaded]

No Buddhist ever invented a motor bike.

Hmm, depends what you mean by 'invent'.

If you mean putting an engine on a motorcycle, several have done that, with great success.

But, do remember it was the Gautama Buddha that invented the number 0 (you see it in a lot of his statues: index and thumb brought together to make the 0 shape)

And Buddhists invented printing.

So without either of those you'd be a bit stuffed trying to make a motorcycle.

[BlackenedBiker]

Ah now you're beginning to understand.
In the 60s a lot of left-wingers who weren't too good at maths and science started getting into positions of power. They invented a concept called post-modernism which meant that everything was subjective and your opinion was as good as mine even if I had, say, been trained better and worked harder than you. It was only fair you see. We couldn't have some people being "better" than others.
So the whole idea of expertise (quality) was degraded. and part of that was that the objectivity of science (which had made the country rich, although the chattering classes were too stupid too understand this) was also degraded into being just another value system.

But lets go back to your original question. When a man comes to fix your boiler, you'll understand the concept of quality quite quickly (or not).

New school of philosophy: Cretinism:

Grasshopper when you have realised in comparison to SG you have severely stunted physical and mental growth then you have learned

Clown

[EternalOptimist]

Plenty of animals enjoy life better than many humans without the weight of conscious thought holding them back. Just got to look at the nearest cat for a good example.

Whats this fellow thinking about ? Socrates or his itchy bum

[PAH]

Thinking's over-rated, it's all in the mind.

Plenty of animals enjoy life better than many humans without the weight of conscious thought holding them back. Just got to look at the nearest cat for a good example.

Then again, what is the tipping point of quality of life for humans?
Would you still want the experience of being 'locked in' without anything but your thoughts to occupy your life if you became blind, deaf, and numb?

[Boudica]

First, we'd have to agree a definition of quality.

or Qualia even...

[lightng]

A zen meditation exercise you can do with your agent whilst discussing your rate increase.

When you next meet, ask them to close their eyes and ponder on this question: "What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

Allow them a second to relax then give them a good open palm slap around the chops.

[Cliphead]

Don't forget;

The Tao of Pooh

"A fish can't whistle and neither can I." There's nothing wrong with not being able to whistle, especially if you're a fish. But there can be lots of things wrong with blindly trying to do what you aren't designed for. Unfortunately, some people aren't so wise, and end up causing big trouble for themselves and others.

[EternalOptimist]

First, we'd have to agree a definition of quality.

Now you are either pulling my plonker, in which case 10/10, or you are serious, in which case read Pirsig

which, imo, is a serious effort to explain where western philosophy came from, and why the western mind works the way it does

which, (and this is the good bit), doesnt have to be so

[mudskipper]

Grasshopper
Does this ‘quality’ of yours exist in the things we observe? Or is it subjective, existing only in the observer?

First, we'd have to agree a definition of quality.

[NickFitz]

Don't forget to read Lila.

+1

[NickFitz]

WHS.
It was written when the US was the in the grip of a love affair with a misunderstood Eastern mysticism.
If you want to fix your machinery and be at one with it, you'd be better going to an evening class about engines.
No Buddhist ever invented a motor bike.

The author's note at the start of the book makes it clear that ZAAMM isn't to do with Zen, nor does it have much to do with motorcycles.

Excellent book IMO, and it inspired me to study philosophy at university. However I realise that Pirsig's ideas can be difficult for some people to grasp

[darrenb]

Don't forget to read Lila.

[EternalOptimist]

Don't want me to see your humiliation on that thread, eh?
I don't really need to be there.
Mr Clarke is destroying you and your friend Master bates with the force of his logic.

busted