Reply to: Bully Revenue under siege on stealth tax

[wendigo100]

There is little that annoys me as much as the Revenue referring to me as a customer, as if I have any choices at all when dealing with them.

Absolutely SP, and Fungus ably demonstrates what a stupid concept it is. Was 7/7 the equivalent of a letter to the customer complaints department?

[BobTheCrate]

Any REAL business that treated its customers in the way that the Revenue treat their's, with incompetence, bullying, and total arrogance, would not be a business any longer.

Never a truer word Stackers.

I don't think this (Inland Revenue bullying) is unique to New Lier. It's symptomatic of failings in the civil service.

To a small extent I'd say that is fair comment. But it is far too mild to attribute it to 'failings'. It is attributed to them having lobbied for evermore powers and them predictably abusing those powers.

The growth of Inland Revenue arrogance, aggression and bullying has increased 10 fold under this wretched Gov't - proportionally with its powers.

The Inland Revenue are demonstrably the most prolific and most grubby of tax cheats.

[Fungus]

Customers? What are they selling?

There is little that annoys me as much as the Revenue referring to me as a customer, as if I have any choices at all when dealing with them. Any REAL business that treated its customers in the way that the Revenue treat their's, with incompetence, bullying, and total arrogance, would not be a business any longer.

I wonder if inmates at Stangeways are now referred to as 'customers'?

Are the Iraqi rebels referred to as 'customer's of the UK armed forces? If so will we distribute customer satisfaction surveys?

---------------------------------------------------------
Q? Mr. Abdullal Hussain, what is your opinion of the way we maimed and mutilated you and your close relatives: very satisfied, satisfied, not satisfied, dissatisfied?
Q? Given the option, who would you most choose to be maimed and mutilated by next time round a) UK troops, or b) American troops.
Q? Do you soil your strangely ethnic undergarments most when confronted by a) UK troops, b) US troops or c) the UK Inland Revenue?
Q? Please tell us in not more than 20 words how we can improve delivery of our services to you.

And everyone who returns their form will have their name entered in a prize draw, and the winner will go on an all expenses paid trip of a (short) lifetime to the exotic Caribbean.
---------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if the UK forces have 'targets' in the New Lier sense of the word? Each soldier is to kill 10 strangely ethnic and slightly wiffy sun-tanned gentlemen per day. And do they talk about productivity, and incentivising?

Fungus

[stackpole]

A Revenue & Customs spokesman said: "As with any organisation, we refine our IT systems and respond to how they are being used by our customers and staff; our systems evolve and improve to reflect these changes."

Customers? What are they selling?

There is little that annoys me as much as the Revenue referring to me as a customer, as if I have any choices at all when dealing with them. Any REAL business that treated its customers in the way that the Revenue treat their's, with incompetence, bullying, and total arrogance, would not be a business any longer.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Thanks for that comrade.

BTW

The cost of developing a computer system for the government's tax credits scheme has shot up by £84m in less than two years, according to new figures.

Revenue & Customs, which operates the system, estimated it would cost £274m, but official figures now show the price tag to be £358m.

The figures were obtained by Liberal Democrat welfare spokesman David Laws from a series of parliamentary questions. The jump in development costs will fuel calls from opposition MPs for the chancellor to simplify the tax credit scheme.

Introduced in 2003, the system has suffered a series of problems, many of them linked to poor design and implementation. More than 2 million people were forced to refund tax credit overpayments worth £2bn in the first two years.

The parliamentary ombudsman told MPs she believed the scheme suffered from "systemic maladministration" in the way it recovered overpayments.

The IT contract was taken away from US computer services firm EDS last summer and handed over to Cap Gemini Ernst & Young.

Cap Gemini said it would maintain the current system under a fixed price contract, but refused to include developments to the tax credit software in the deal.

Earlier this year the paymaster general, Dawn Primarolo, promised to modify the system and Gordon Brown announced further upgrades in the pre-budget report three weeks ago.

Mr Laws said the figures showed the computer system was switched on before it was ready and three years of further development had failed to provide a solution.

"The way customers use the system hasn't changed. It only needs constant development because it wasn't ready at the time it was switched on," he said.

"The tax credit system has been a shambles and problems with the IT have not gone away.

"If there is no fixed price to the current contract with Cap Gemini, the cost of fixing the system and building in the new changes such as those announced during the pre-budget report are likely to escalate further and prove hard to contain."

A Revenue & Customs spokesman said: "The recent information given to parliament explains the new estimate includes 'four extra [IT] releases not in the original plan'. Over the last two years we have made improvements to the system and its functionality.

"As with any organisation, we refine our IT systems and respond to how they are being used by our customers and staff; our systems evolve and improve to reflect these changes."

[Fungus]

I suppose in NLs eyes thats only fair, but I will not tolerate this latest blatant abuse of taxpayers funds by NL least we find ourselves on the slippery slope to State Socialism.

I hate to break the news to you but ... no it's Christmas, I can't do it ... ignorance is bliss ... let sleeping dogs lie ... [choose a cliche]

Fungus

[AlfredJPruffock]

I don't think this is unique to New Lier. It's symptomatic of failings in the civil service.

Fungus

Perhaps Fungus, but its NL who endlessly try to take the high ground on, eg hard working taxpaying famlies, yet what about the hard working Business People, Entrepreurs who are being targeted to fianance the NL socialist programs?

I suppose in NLs eyes thats only fair, but I will not tolerate this latest blatant abuse of taxpayers funds by NL least we find ourselves on the slippery slope to State Socialism.

[OwlHoot]

Interesting that when it comes to extracting taxes the Government leave no stone left unturned and no arm untwisted in their quest.

Yet when it comes to awarding Major IT contracts to the likes of EDS, despite their dismal record ith Government IT contracts, there is simply no hesitation with NL awarding vast sums of hard working familys taxpayer money to EDS, despite being fined by the Government with recent contract failures.

As to whether certain individuals within the NL Admin could be benefiting from this cosy arrangement, let me emphasise that nothing could be further from the truth.

EDS are a pretty large US company, and I wonder if as in the UK they have a finger seemingly in every pie in the US. Maybe this curious compulsion of UK officials to keep giving them plum contracts goes deeper than personal gain and the politicians and civil servants know or believe that doing so has some kind of benefit for the UK as a whole (such as continuing access to US intelligence material?) if EDS prosper and somehow keep US politicians happy or have links to US intelligence agencies.

I know it sounds like a tenuous link, and Blair and co are busily screwing up any prospect of long term substantial US/UK intelligence cooperation, by cosying up ever closer to the EU. But I do wonder if there isn't some angle like that.

[Fungus]

Yet when it comes to awarding Major IT contracts to the likes of EDS, despite their dismal record ith Government IT contracts, there is simply no hesitation with NL awarding vast sums of hard working familys taxpayer money to EDS, despite being fined by the Government with recent contract failures.

I don't think this is unique to New Lier. It's symptomatic of failings in the civil service.

Fungus

[malvolio]

Well I would but my local MP is currently linked to the Treasury and is a former Labour Whip, so I don't suppose for a moment I'd get very far.

But for the hard of thinking, look up the relationship between Mapeley (who now own all HMRC's buildings) and EDS, work out the average valuation of the buildings sold off by HMRC to Mapeley (hint - about £200k each for mostly city-centre office blocks), and work out how much corporation tax Mapeley pay to the UK economy after they've paid the annual profit-related fees to their parent company back in the Cayman Islands.

And people still say the old Tory party was sleazy...

[AlfredJPruffock]

Last week, in a powerful note to institute members, Mike Warburton, senior tax consultant at Grant Thornton, accused the Revenue of "using its power and resources to bully a number of taxpayers into accepting their view of the legislation — not because they agreed, but because they could not afford to fight back. By picking on a soft target they nearly got away with it”.

Interesting that when it comes to extracting taxes the Government leave no stone left unturned and no arm untwisted in their quest.

Yet when it comes to awarding Major IT contracts to the likes of EDS, despite their dismal record ith Government IT contracts, there is simply no hesitation with NL awarding vast sums of hard working familys taxpayer money to EDS, despite being fined by the Government with recent contract failures.

As to whether certain individuals within the NL Admin could be benefiting from this cosy arrangement, let me emphasise that nothing could be further from the truth.

I do hope that the Conservative Party will take the opportunity to launch an extensive investigation into the probity and logic of this arrangement whereby EDS spectacular contractual failures are rewarded with even larger and more lucrative Government contracts, surely this is contrary to all business practice and logic ?

Rahter than remain with my arms folded, I have alerted a senior Tory party member as to this sorry state of affairs , perhaps readers might also wish to alert their local Tory MP.

[Lucifer Box]

Yup. I'm told that the HMC&E can force an (armed?) entry into your property.

Fungus

Yup, and they don't need to apply for a warrant either.

[Fungus]

Now they've merged, I suppose we can expect the attitude of the IR with the power of HMCE...

Yup. I'm told that the HMC&E can force an (armed?) entry into your property.

Fungus

[Mordac]

Now they've merged, I suppose we can expect the attitude of the IR with the power of HMCE...

[Fungus]

Before I go out tonight I thought I'd post this from last week's Sunday Times.

It's a well written piece, and the point about hitting soft targets who cannot afford the legal costs to fight back is well made. I've been freelancing for 7 years now and I've found the IR to be very arrogant with absolutely no give (the term fascists comes to mind). HM Customs and Excise are pussy cats by comparison.

Fungus