Reply to: Oh dear (tm) Blair's EU deal...

[vetran]

Hard working families

So Tony is ensuring 'hard working families' have to stump up for 90% of the earnings of French farmers whilst gordy robs us blind, as if that isn't that wasn't enough Tony & Bev are importing half a million cheap poles to undercut 'hard working' families.

b'strds!

[wendigo100]

Quite a cutting article by Simon Jenkins in the Times.

Blair signed the 2002 CAP reform to last until 2013. This promised farmers continued EU subsidy to roughly 40% of the total budget. He personally agreed this lunacy. He signed it. It was his Munich. Like Neville Chamberlain he thought he could somehow bluff his way through the short term and leave the long term to worry for itself. At least this time the Czechs and Poles were beneficiaries of his appeasement.

As Blair’s “legacy moment” approached this autumn, the 2002 deal came to haunt him. Finally, and in clear desperation, he starting throwing British money across the Danube. On Friday night he was forced, in effect, to surrender his chairmanship to Angela Merkel, the new German leader, to broker a final deal.

The CAP, and France as its great beneficiary, remains supreme. European farming and finance are unreformed and Europe’s trade practices stand condemned before the World Trade Organisation. Blair offered Chirac a glass jaw to punch. Punched it was.

[zathras]

The BBC seem quite laid back about it, but Blair's getting a big bashing in Have Your Say.

The Sun has a bit of a go though: TONY Blair gambled £7billion of YOUR money last night on an EU budget bet that will win Britain NOTHING.

He's caved in for personal reasons - to curry favour with Europe - but it's ironic that the Europeans think he's a wnaker as well.

Well now they know he is an idiot as well. That is of course being charitable. Some commentators have been saying that he wants his 'legacy'. Well Hubris might do as well.

France have in effect weakened the rebate we get from Europe in return for absolute zippo, nadda, not a bean. A review may very well be held. But I don't give it a snowflakes chance in a very hot place for finding that French farmers get too big a slice of the action. France is hardly in the same league economically as countries such as Latvia, Lithuania or any other country that entered the EU recently.

[wendigo100]

The Times leader

A costly climbdown

...(snip)
As with all Mr Blair’s deals, there are two problems. The first is the deal itself; the second is the way he got to it. Taken together, the two add up to incompetence on a grand scale.

Three years ago Mr Blair allowed himself to be ambushed by Messrs Chirac and Schröder, the then German chancellor, over the common agricultural policy budget for the period to 2013. Since French farmers receive 22% of CAP handouts, France was understandably keen on the deal which it regarded as set in concrete. Why then did the prime minister allow himself, and British taxpayers, to believe that agreement could be reopened in return for a surrender of part of Britain’s historic EU rebate? Why did he tell business leaders at the CBI conference three weeks ago that the rebate would remain as long as “distortions of expenditure under the CAP” were unreformed?

Nobody would argue with Mr Blair’s sentiments about the wasteful and anachronistic CAP, which is inflicting damage well beyond Europe’s shores. World Trade Organisation talks in Hong Kong are on the brink of collapse because of the inability of Peter Mandelson, the EU trade commissioner, to give ground on agriculture. But why did the prime minister hold out the hope of a rebate-for-CAP reform deal when there was no prospect of him securing it? He is just not that good a negotiator.

The prime minister’s second error was alienating the new EU members in eastern Europe with his pre-summit proposal that spending on them, rather than the CAP, be cut. Yesterday Mr Blair insisted: “We can’t ask the poorer countries of central and eastern Europe to pay the rebate on British spending because that would obviously be wrong.” So why did he first propose a plan that was clearly against their interests? As it is, many fear that new EU spending will go on grandiose projects rather than fostering enterprise and economic independence. Does it really serve our interests for Budapest to have a better Underground system than London, paid for by British taxpayers?

Britain will pay more into the EU, our net contribution rising from £3.5 billion to nearly £6 billion a year. The British rebate has been shaved by £1 billion a year. And for what? Next to nothing. It would have been better for Mr Blair to walk away than agree this deal. He, however, was anxious not be seen as an EU wrecker — that would not be good for his so called “legacy”. Next door in 11 Downing Street, as he watches the prime minister negotiating away Britain’s interests, Gordon Brown is fuming. He is right to be.

This man is in charge of British interests abroad. That is a sobering thought.

[wendigo100]

God how they must all despise the vain self-important weakling! Obviously he got so wrapped up in all his "big boy politicking" behind the scenes, and obsessed with some arbitrary deadline that no one outside EU officialdom gives a toss about, that he completely lost sight of the big picture which was that he could just say "feck 'em" and walk away!

He reminds me so much of some geek kid rushing up to the playground bullies and offering them sweets and money in a pitiful attempt to be liked and gain their respect, only to be inevitably duffed up yet again with their laughter ringing in his ears.

That just about covers it, Owlhoot.

[NoddY]

...After all they are free to and work in Estoia. ....

Why don't you fck off to Estonia then? In fact keep going until you hit the X. Change trains in Moscow.

[OwlHoot]

Here's the "deal". Blair gives the EU a extra billion of UK taxpayers' money, and in return, the rest of the EU will "review" CAP and the rest of the budget in three years time. Chirac won't have slept last night for laughing.

Deal moves EU forward, says Blair

What a weak, incompetent w**ker.

God how they must all despise the vain self-important weakling! Obviously he got so wrapped up in all his "big boy politicking" behind the scenes, and obsessed with some arbitrary deadline that no one outside EU officialdom gives a toss about, that he completely lost sight of the big picture which was that he could just say "feck 'em" and walk away!

He reminds me so much of some geek kid rushing up to the playground bullies and offering them sweets and money in a pitiful attempt to be liked and gain their respect, only to be inevitably duffed up yet again with their laughter ringing in his ears.

[Churchill]

I want our fish back ...

Fungus

Sorry mate, t'spaniards 'ave nicked 'em all!!!

[Fungus]

Here's the "deal". Blair gives the EU a extra billion of UK taxpayers' money, and in return, the rest of the EU will "review" CAP and the rest of the budget in three years time. Chirac won't have slept last night for laughing.

Deal moves EU forward, says Blair

What a weak, incompetent w**ker.

I want our fish back ...

Fungus

[milanbenes]

"So you are an ardent supporter of protectionism then Milan?",

not really DA,

however, opening your market to products from countries where the competing suppliers do not have the same fixed costs as in your country is not really a level playing field is it ?

Let's put this in simple terms, manufacturing a widget in the UK will cost x where x includes the cost of health and safety provision and compliance, the cost of pension provision (for example), Employers and Employees social security contributions, Corporate and Employee tax constributions and other costs

Manufacturing the same widget in Africa or China will cost a fraction of x because the companies are not subject to the same levels of costs related to health and safety provision and compliance, the cost of pension provision (for example), Employers and Employees social security contributions, Corporate and Employee tax constributions etc

are you beginning to see where this is leading ?

the only way to open up the markets is also to remove the associated costs that local businesses have and make everything level

otherwise the only result of opening up the UK and European markets will be the demise of the livelihoods of the inhabitants of those regions

Anyway, doesn't matter does it, you don't get this, neither of us have the power to change the situation and the most we can do is do the best for our families in light of everything

Milan.

[DodgyAgent]

oh yes,

good one DA, open up the agricultural markets to saturation for globalisation

with your policies the only thing the majority of UK residents can look forward to is a future of earning 5.05GBP per hour (aka the maximum wage), as through competition nobody will be able to get any more than that for anything they do, just look at the other thread, the baltics in East Anglia, they are all happy to work for 5.05GBP per hour, what future does that give the local people - priced out of the housing market by the townies driving prices up and priced out of the jobs market by the Eastern Europeans driving prices down

and now you want to do the same with agriculture

Milan.

So you are an ardent supporter of protectionism then Milan? Earning £5.oo per hour is better than earning nothing. It means that local people are incentivised to compete. After all they are free to and work in Estoia. The irony is that these people have come from precisely the type of society that you extol- command economics with heavily protected markets.

[milanbenes]

oh yes,

good one DA, open up the agricultural markets to saturation for globalisation

with your policies the only thing the majority of UK residents can look forward to is a future of earning 5.05GBP per hour (aka the maximum wage), as through competition nobody will be able to get any more than that for anything they do, just look at the other thread, the baltics in East Anglia, they are all happy to work for 5.05GBP per hour, what future does that give the local people - priced out of the housing market by the townies driving prices up and priced out of the jobs market by the Eastern Europeans driving prices down

and now you want to do the same with agriculture

Milan.

[SupremeSpod]

The EU should be setting rules to create an environment of competition and trade, it should not be a redistributor of wealth.

Why not? It's only fair after all!

[DodgyAgent]

milans precious europe

look lads,

I think you're all taking this a little too seriously

surprising you are only just beginning to realise that
the EU is about the redistribution of wealth from the
richer members to the benefit of the poorer members

take central europe for example, it is amazing to see the
EU sponsored activity going on over there like new and
reconstructed railway lines for high speed rail, new motorways,
water and sewage systems

you should feel good about the effects the UK contribution is having
on the quality of life for people in other EU member states

it's not all about money, money doesn't make you happy and if it
wasn't spent on the EU it would be spent elsewhere and you'd all
still be moaning anyway

look at the tremendous effect EU sponsorship has had on places
like Portugal and Spain, and Southern Ireland, and now Easter Europe

more of it

cheers

Milan.

Milan, you wont hera a word said against your precious Europe will you?
It may interest you to know that the biggest recipients from the EU handouts are the wealthy contries like Belgium Luxembourg Ireland while poor countries like Cyprus are net contributors. France gets twice as much from the EU as Britain does.

Although you are right in many ways to qustion why we should get so het up by what amounts to the handling of 1% of the GDP of the EU, it is very much the thin end of a socialist/large state big tax no illiberal wedge. To say that the EU redistributes wealth from rich to poor is a lie

It may be OK that for a trivial £100 billion the fact the accountants for the EU have refused to sign off the ast 11 years accounts, just imagine what will happen if this superstate in waiting is allowed to grow and take over the duties of individual sovereign states?

The widely acknowledged criminalaty of the CAP is impoverishing many farmers in 3rd world countries as subsidised EU food is dumped abroad. There is no excuse for this.

The EU should be setting rules to create an environment of competition and trade, it should not be a redistributor of wealth.

[NoddY]

The European Parliament realised pretty early on in the rotating presidency that Blair is all mouth and no trousers - shame the Great British Public didn't - but then again most people don't spend their life decoding spin back into truth.

Such is the level of deceit from the top down that even the Westminster Parliament got hoodwinked into supporting the Iraq war. At this point I was dismayed - because it meant the last check and balance on New Labour failed.

Not suprisingly we are seeing the demise of New Labour, not from the opposition, but from inside.