Reply to: Last will and testement - executor

[Sysman]

My last experience with a will was when buying a fridge from an old lady who died, with no relatives in the immediate vicinity.

The only person I talked to was her home help who was clearing the house out out of the goodness of her heart. The solicitor had knocked everything down to rock bottom value (it cost me 60 quid for a 5 month old 400 quid fridge), and, oh, he'd kindly bought the lady's car "for his daughter".

I was disgusted, but if I wasn't to get a shiny new fridge on the cheap, someone else would have had it for the same price.

[shoes]

That is a popular one. Of course, the parents of the grandkids are assuming that nobody else will have any more kids of their own in future, but there's no arguing with parent logic!

And why does it make more sense to give more money to offspring with offspring of their own anyway? A childless person has no help in their old age from their offspring, and just because they didn't get anyone knocked up their share is reduced?

Money eh, pain in the arse

[ASB]

You may find this hard to believe but here goes:

Actually Paddy I don't find it hard to believe at all. It saddens me though.

It seems to me that the root of the problem is probably the fact that there were 2 executors. One with her own preconceived ideas of what mum would have wanted (well beyond her powers as excutrix) and regarding the will itself as simple guidance.

The advice I received from my sols (contrary to what most would advise) was to have 1 (not 2) executors and ensure they are not significant beneficiaries directly or indirectly.

Certainly as I have learnt over the last year what passes for family law in this country is a complete joke.

[EternalOptimist]

Paddy, I decided to steer clear of solicitors in both drawing up the will and in executing it, from what you say, it's a wise move.

Zeity - The witnesses and mum will sign it at the weekend, I will make sure there are no staples in it.

[Paddy]

Yuk. Out of curiosity:-

- Was there ambiguity in the Will?
- Did they contest under the inheritance act on the grounds it was perverse not to provide for the grandchildren directly in anyway?
- Was a large estate?

Certainly on the face of it the grounds for objection look extremely thin indeed. I'm astounded you lost.

You may find this hard to believe but here goes:
Was there ambiguity in the Will? Not in my opinion. There was a problem because half sister executor used to work (not in a legal position) for the solicitors firm who held the Will. The firm virtually undertook to back up anything she said without informing me the other executor. Her instructions included using money and assets that should have been distributed.


Did they contest under the inheritance act on the grounds it was perverse not to provide for the grandchildren directly in anyway? No, the firm of solicitors went along with such rubbish as “mum would have wanted me to have that or the kids to have that…” and “Paddy already has a lot of money and property…”

Was a large estate? No, not that large. The was several thousands of pounds missing from the accounts. Therefore I did not sign them off however the Judge in court said my act was unreasonable because the other executor was willing to sign them.

Certainly on the face of it the grounds for objection look extremely thin indeed. I'm astounded you lost. The case seemed to be fixed, the Senior Solicitor of the firm holding the Will was also a Deputy District Judge ( he was also drunk and red faced most of the time). He managed to get the Case moved to the High Court in Exeter (hundreds of miles away from our area).

My expert barrister notified me the NIGHT before the case that he could not attend.
Muppet barrister was the substitute. Muppet barrister told me that I will loose, as the Judge and solicitor (Deputy District Judge) are golfing mates.

The High Court was booked for one day; the High Court Judge said the case will finish in ten minutes and he did not permit me to speak.

In order to appeal I needed a transcript of the Hearing. By luck the Court in error sent me a copy of the tape recording of the proceedings. I got an official transcript done.

The tape clearly has the Judge saying that I can not speak and the Hearing must finish in ten minutes however the law is that all transcripts must be approved by the Judge in the case. The Judge edited out the aforementioned and ordered the tape to be returned to the Court. I did not return the tape. My permission to appeal was turned down in that the Judge denied saying such (I still have the tape!). The case then became too costly to pursue

The above would not be so bad if it was a one off, but the fact is, this sort of thing goes on in Court every day!

[ASB]

The story would make a good movie but I was a joint executor with a half sister. The Will was drawn up with a straight spit between four siblings. There were objections to the split by the others because grandchildren were not directly provided for in the Will but it was up to the individual siblings to provide for them out of their own cut. They contested the Will and what they couldn’t get there hands on; they stole from the estate and bank accounts. The excuses were from those who contested the Will (including the other executor) was that the Will was made a long time ago and if mum was alive she would have made a different Will.

Yuk. Out of curiosity:-

- Was there ambiguity in the Will?
- Did they contest under the inheritance act on the grounds it was perverse not to provide for the grandchildren directly in anyway?
- Was a large estate?

Certainly on the face of it the grounds for objection look extremely thin indeed. I'm astounded you lost.

[SueEllen]

Include beneficiaries by all their full names on their official documents and address, instead of children or grandchildren of x or part of their name.

And don't leave token payments of things to people.

And there is a clause you need to put in, in case one of the beneficiaries dies to make it clear who is next to inherit.

Otherwise it makes it easier to contest it.

Also you should have two executors in case one of them drops dead. An executor can also be a beneficiary.

A solicitor wrote my will and a solicitor wrote my deceased mother's will. Neither of them asked or even suggested they should act as executors to our wills.

If you are DIYing it then get a good book out on it and make the will simple.

[NotAllThere]

I take it you realise that the witnesses to the will must be present when the will is signed...

How do you prove that they were there? By having witnesses sign a document saying that the witnesses were there.

And how do you prove those witnesses were there?

[thunderlizard]

There were objections to the split by the others because grandchildren were not directly provided for in the Will but it was up to the individual siblings to provide for them out of their own cut.

That is a popular one. Of course, the parents of the grandkids are assuming that nobody else will have any more kids of their own in future, but there's no arguing with parent logic!

[Paddy]

Best advice I can give is make the will detailed enough to cover everything that the beneficiaries could possibly argue about. Unless it's absolutely clear who gets Great Uncle Berty's medal for Best Cauliflower in Show 1919, there'll be strife.

Yes, exactly

[Paddy]

Dad is dead and the house is a joint tenency with my sister, so the house drops out of the equation.

How did it cost you 30k ? whats the story there ?


I do not plan on using a solicitor or lawyer

The story would make a good movie but I was a joint executor with a half sister. The Will was drawn up with a straight spit between four siblings. There were objections to the split by the others because grandchildren were not directly provided for in the Will but it was up to the individual siblings to provide for them out of their own cut. They contested the Will and what they couldn’t get there hands on; they stole from the estate and bank accounts. The excuses were from those who contested the Will (including the other executor) was that the Will was made a long time ago and if mum was alive she would have made a different Will.

I refused to sign off the accounts because they were grossly inaccurate. It went to litigation at the High Court and although I engaged the best barrister in that area of practice (I should have won hands down) the barrister had to drop out the case the night before and I was left with an absolute Muppet replacement. The High Court scheduled the case for a whole day but the Judge turned up had said it only wants the hearing to last ten minutes and refused an adornment. The result I was f$£ked.

Part Two later…

[thunderlizard]

Best advice I can give is make the will detailed enough to cover everything that the beneficiaries could possibly argue about. Unless it's absolutely clear who gets Great Uncle Berty's medal for Best Cauliflower in Show 1919, there'll be strife.

[EternalOptimist]

Dad is dead and the house is a joint tenency with my sister, so the house drops out of the equation.

How did it cost you 30k ? whats the story there ?


I do not plan on using a solicitor or lawyer

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I was executor to my Dad - but on his lawyer's advice, he'd included the lawyer. This slowed the process and made it more expensive (which is the entire point of lawyers)

[Paddy]

Yes.
I hope that your mum lives long.
Is your father still alive?
Are there any other executors?

You need to make sure the Will is watertight. Solicitors make their money by making the will ambiguous.

Being an executor cost me £30k you will be amazed how people act when there is a Will with money at stake.