Reply to: Peoplesoft bloke 'ave it...

[Ardesco]

Nu Liebor banned guns - and gun crime went up big time! Not from previous legit owners either.

Now I hate Nu Liebor as much as the next man, but this is just not true. They haven't banned guns. They banned a specific calibre of a type of gun. Not really the same thing is it?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

My views are being misrepresented here.

Corrected version:

Anybody: OMFG! The Daily Mail says that the Tories are promising me the Earth, the Moon, a Pony, and a Unicorn! FFS, the Tories are my saviours, I'm wetting myself with anticipation at the thought of voting for them!!!?1!11!!

Me: The Daily Mail prints any old tulip Cameroon's mob ask it to print. The Tories say any old tulip they think you'll be stupid enough to be taken in by. The story is about the Tories promising to change the words used to describe something (cf. Windscale and Sellafield) because they regard you with contempt and assume you'll fall for it. It seems they were correct in this assumption. Get a grip.

FTFY.

I've only just seen this thread (I was a bit busy just prior to Christmas). Not for the first time, Nick Fitz says it better than I ever could.

[NickFitz]

AtW: Hark is that a burglar I hear? <GRABS GUN> <BANG> <DEAD BURGLAR>

NF: (Judge) He was invading your property - your innocent of murder but guilty of owning a firearm without a license.

OR

AtW: Hark is that a burglar I hear? <GRABS GUN> <CHASES BURGLAR DOWN STREET> <BANG> <DEAD BURGLAR>

NF: (Judge) HANG HIM! HANG HIM!

My views are being misrepresented here.

Corrected version:

Anybody: OMFG! The Daily Mail says that the Tories are promising me the Earth, the Moon, a Pony, and a Unicorn! FFS, the Tories are my saviours, I'm wetting myself with anticipation at the thought of voting for them!!!?1!11!!

Me: The Daily Mail prints any old tulip Cameroon's mob ask it to print. The Tories say any old tulip they think you'll be stupid enough to be taken in by. The story is about the Tories promising to change the words used to describe something (cf. Windscale and Sellafield) because they regard you with contempt and assume you'll fall for it. It seems they were correct in this assumption. Get a grip.

FTFY.

[AtW]

Burglars can't legally defend themselves using reasonable force?

Not if they are in process of committing crime by burgling someone else's house. In this case any "self defense" from their side should be treated as aggravated action.

It's like asking if armed bank robbers are entitled to self defense from the police, of course not.

[Scary]

Wow! A real step forwards. Not grossly disproportionate force is far more reasonable than reasonable force although reasonable force would also be not grossly disproportionate.

[TimberWolf]

It won't apply to burglars unless they choose to burgle their own house.

Burglars can't legally defend themselves using reasonable force?

[AtW]

Presumably any change in law would be applicable to burglars too.

It won't apply to burglars unless they choose to burgle their own house.

[TimberWolf]

Presumably any change in law would be applicable to burglars too. So an armed householder confronting a (suspected/alleged) burglar, and who as a consequence of a gun pointing/firing session comes out dead, shouldn't have anything to moan about. In fact he could be dead happy as the law allowed the burglar to protect himself using reasonable force.

[Coalman]

Great solution. All live in such fear you need to keep knifes' next to the bed ...

Perhaps we'd be better off punishing criminals and making their lifes harder should they decide to break into someone's house ... dunno.

Read my post again - I do not do this.

Society is not so fcked up to need this yet, not in my experience.
This probably reflects on where I live rather than a true universal representation of modern Britain.

[Diver]

Burglers are people too!

If you cut them, do they not bleed?

Oh Yeh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEfGpwJHodE

[TimberWolf]

Clarification is needed on how much of a head start 'reasonable force' implies, how far can you chase them and whether hounds and cricket bats can be used.

[Jeebo72]

As Jeebo says if anyone enters my house without being asked they are leaving via the nearest exit.

Problem is people will use it as an excuse to beat people up they do not like - and that is why it is such a grey area - to prove yourself innocent you have to prove the person you have just shot/maimed/beaten up was actually guilty of burglary (or attmepted burglary)

I appreciate they can't have people dragging guys into their house and saying they were an intruder as an excuse to beat them up. But the law doesn't treat the genuine cases, where aggravated burglary has been proven, fair. That's the problem.

[Diver]

As Jeebo says if anyone enters my house without being asked they are leaving via the nearest exit.

Problem is people will use it as an excuse to beat people up they do not like - and that is why it is such a grey area - to prove yourself innocent you have to prove the person you have just shot/maimed/beaten up was actually guilty of burglary (or attmepted burglary)

As soon as the law changes in my favour, I see a lot of invites to house warming parties going out to people I don't like

[original PM]

As Jeebo says if anyone enters my house without being asked they are leaving via the nearest exit.

Problem is people will use it as an excuse to beat people up they do not like - and that is why it is such a grey area - to prove yourself innocent you have to prove the person you have just shot/maimed/beaten up was actually guilty of burglary (or attmepted burglary)

[Jeebo72]

I So just sleep with the knife block by the bedside.

Great solution. All live in such fear you need to keep knifes' next to the bed ...

Perhaps we'd be better off punishing criminals and making their lifes harder should they decide to break into someone's house ... dunno.