Reply to: IT in Europe has had it

[MPwannadecentincome]

A good manager would ask them all to present their points of view to him/her individually and would have the experience and theoretical grounding (in systems deveopment, not Prince II, CMMi or some other methodology-tosh) to understand the arguments and judge them on their merit.

However, this also requires some training in the detection of BS. Carl Sagan's guide to baloney detection is quite useful for spotting weak arguments in any context, take a look at it.

WHS hear hear!

[threaded]

A manager I respected immensely taught me that.

My self (dev team manager) and a peer (the networks team manager) were arguing over the best way to do something technical. We went to the Big Boss and she sided with the networks team manager. He wandered off all elated and I stayed to query her decision.

BB: "You came to me for a decision. I gave you a decision."

Me: "But why did you disagree with me?"

BB: "Both of you were convinced you were right, and I do not know enough to know to tell which of you was more right, so either decision was OK."

Me: "But why did you agree with him?"

BB: "It was his turn. Sometimes it is more important to make a decision than the quality of that decision. Now get back to work."

And she was a career civil servant. But she was special.

Ah ha, management by 8 ball I call that. A lot of that here too.

[RichardCranium]

It really has been my observation that any decision (even a bad one) is better than no decision at all.

A manager I respected immensely taught me that.

My self (dev team manager) and a peer (the networks team manager) were arguing over the best way to do something technical. We went to the Big Boss and she sided with the networks team manager. He wandered off all elated and I stayed to query her decision.

BB: "You came to me for a decision. I gave you a decision."

Me: "But why did you disagree with me?"

BB: "Both of you were convinced you were right, and I do not know enough to know to tell which of you was more right, so either decision was OK."

Me: "But why did you agree with him?"

BB: "It was his turn. Sometimes it is more important to make a decision than the quality of that decision. Now get back to work."

And she was a career civil servant. But she was special.

[cojak]

A variation is the illness that the public sector suffers from: nobody ever gets told off for saying "No" but God help anyone who says "Yes" and is not 100% correct. So they all say "No" just in case.

Oh God, I've been in that programme...

If anyone cottoned on to the mismanagement and waste of public money on a (non-NHS) project I've been on that is still limping away...

... they'ed probably put odds on it racing along with the countless others, I'd imagine.

And on reflection it's probably small-beer compared to the money spent on National ID-cards already

[EternalOptimist]

A variation is the illness that the public sector suffers from: nobody ever gets told off for saying "No" but God help anyone who says "Yes" and is not 100% correct. So they all say "No" just in case.

neatly put.

[RichardCranium]

Unfortunately in a lot of organisations it really is the case that decision = blame. That's another symptom of poor management.

A variation is the illness that the public sector suffers from: nobody ever gets told off for saying "No" but God help anyone who says "Yes" and is not 100% correct. So they all say "No" just in case.

[cojak]

Unfortunately in a lot of organisations it really is the case that decision = blame. That's another symptom of poor management.

It really has been my observation that any decision (even a bad one) is better than no decision at all..

Drifting with no action is the worse possible situation in a project.

[Mich the Tester]

Yep, I'm seeing this cycle.

Last client has just imposed as Contractors ban without treating it a a proper programme with succession planning, permie re-training and cultural shifting (permies were quite happy to let contractors make decisions under the misguided belief that decision = blame).

I expect to be invited back in the New Year...

Unfortunately in a lot of organisations it really is the case that decision = blame. That's another symptom of poor management.

[cojak]

However, this also requires some training in the detection of BS. Carl Sagan's guide to baloney detection is quite useful for spotting weak arguments in any context, take a look at it.

Gosh! Two good websites in a day!

Ta, Mich.

[cojak]

My client co has got rid of all the contractors except me (in my area) at the mo as I'm the only one left doing chargeable work.

As soon as folk start buying universal banking systems again, they will be after some more contractors...

Yep, I'm seeing this cycle.

Last client has just imposed as Contractors ban without treating it a a proper programme with succession planning, permie re-training and cultural shifting (permies were quite happy to let contractors make decisions under the misguided belief that decision = blame).

I expect to be invited back in the New Year...

[Mich the Tester]

Example from this morning, I'm sat in my office and listen to this. There are a group of developers on a sub-project where actually only two of them can code. The two that can code are having an animated discussion with a few of the rest (those that can't code) in the corridor. Their immediate manager comes out of his office, wades in, and sides with the pair that can't code. Fairy nuff, management thinks the majority can't be wrong, can it!

I'm laughing because I know me and my team will get an extension to fix that later as I know on the customer validation it will blow. Yet sad that this is a microcosm of the overall project, which is already supposed to be 5 years late (yeah like that is a bare minimum) is saddled with this hundreds of times over.

A good manager would ask them all to present their points of view to him/her individually and would have the experience and theoretical grounding (in systems deveopment, not Prince II, CMMi or some other methodology-tosh) to understand the arguments and judge them on their merit.

However, this also requires some training in the detection of BS. Carl Sagan's guide to baloney detection is quite useful for spotting weak arguments in any context, take a look at it.

[threaded]

I would take someone with people skills even though they may not have used a particular technology before, to manage a project every time over someone that has coded a bit before so no that doesn't help.

Example from this morning, I'm sat in my office and listen to this. There are a group of developers on a sub-project where actually only two of them can code. The two that can code are having an animated discussion with a few of the rest (those that can't code) in the corridor. Their immediate manager comes out of his office, wades in, and sides with the pair that can't code. Fairy nuff, management thinks the majority can't be wrong, can it!

I'm laughing because I know me and my team will get an extension to fix that later as I know on the customer validation it will blow. Yet sad that this is a microcosm of the overall project, which is already supposed to be 5 years late (yeah like that is a bare minimum) is saddled with this hundreds of times over.

[Mich the Tester]

Are software developers the best people managers?

Some are very bad managers, some are very good. I've met software developers who do a very good job of leading their team. I'm a tester (maybe a slightly different strain of Nerdus Geekificus) and have managed up to 25 people on test projects. I believe people enjoy working for me, because they've told me so and they've told senior management at my clients. I also ensure the job gets done. I don't know if that makes me a good manager, but it doesn't make me a bad one.

[oracleslave]

Don't need to be 'best' just need to be ever so slightly 'less sucky'.

HTH

threaded in "managing by walking about' mode.

I would take someone with people skills even though they may not have used a particular technology before, to manage a project every time over someone that has coded a bit before so no that doesn't help.

[threaded]

Are software developers the best people managers?

Don't need to be 'best' just need to be ever so slightly 'less sucky'.

HTH

threaded in "managing by walking about' mode.