Reply to: Rates of contracts with different agents.

[mcquiggd]

Cheers chaps....

Its been two weeks since I had a chat with the technical lead; the interview was supposed to be a brief chat but we ended up discussing the project in depth, and I gave some recommendations which he seemed pleased with; in fact afterwards he told me I had approached the problems in exactly the same way that his analysts had...

Still, I have an offer now so unless something amazing comes up by thursday Im going to take it...

[AlfredJPruffock]

Perhaps AJP can comment better on such things since he's been here longer, but that seems my impression.

Certainly talking to a couple managers here on my last job one of the comments they made was that they felt the UK recruitment agencies were very "aggressive" (their words) compared to what they were used to, i.e. always pushing for a decision, for a response etc.

Likewise, as I commented before, I wouldn't be surprised if a typical UK contractor CV such as mine doesn't also come over a bit like that, i.e. as being much more of a (pushy?) sales pitch, compared to what I've seen here.

Then again, maybe for us [ex]UK contractors thats an advantage...

My impression is that Belgium is similar to the Netherlands in the respect that companies prefer to take their time when it comes to hiring.

Ive seen contract poisitions remain unfilled for weeks, months even.

Just as youve seen people taking thier time to relish a beer here in Brussels, its the same story when it comes to hiring staff, they like to ponder over things,

And as you habe observed JB the managment here resent being pushed or cajooled into making decisions.

So dont be surprised if it takes a while before you hear about an interview,I recall one contract offer in Holland took over three months twixt my initial application and final contract offer.

The key is patience.

Perhaps Fleetie can comment as he had been in Brussels for aeons, well I think at least seven years on a continious contract ?

[Joe Black]

Cheers for that JB - I have no experience of the Brussels job market so I applied my 'UK' mindset to it - after 10 days you just write it off...

Perhaps AJP can comment better on such things since he's been here longer, but that seems my impression.

Certainly talking to a couple managers here on my last job one of the comments they made was that they felt the UK recruitment agencies were very "aggressive" (their words) compared to what they were used to, i.e. always pushing for a decision, for a response etc.

Likewise, as I commented before, I wouldn't be surprised if a typical UK contractor CV such as mine doesn't also come over a bit like that, i.e. as being much more of a (pushy?) sales pitch, compared to what I've seen here.

Then again, maybe for us [ex]UK contractors thats an advantage...

PS: Edinburgh, Leeds, London, Brussels?....you're certainly keeping the options open mcquiggd!

[mcquiggd]

Not a strange comment... in the company I worked for, the Technical Architect reported to me, the Dev Manager.... I reported to the IT Director who was on the Board... I had 7 people reporting to me (small company) plus a 'tester' and secretary, who kept meeting minutes in colour then printed them in black and white, so nobody knew what the hell was going on.... she was 'entertaining' the IT Director so nobody could criticise her.

[boredsenseless]

Im actually thinking about toning down my CV, as everyone wants me to be a team leader, or dev manager... ive done that before and its not my scene.... technical architect is what id like to be.

Strange comment, in all the areas of IT I've ever worked in TA is much more senior than Team Leader or Dev Mgr, and to get a TA gig you'd need to prove you can do the others standing on your head.

[mcquiggd]

Cheers for that JB - I have no experience of the Brussels job market so I applied my 'UK' mindset to it - after 10 days you just write it off... the same agent had put me forward for a local-ish contract, for which ive received a written offer in the meantime. Im still interested in Brussels, Amsterdam etc but im torn between several considerations.... tomorrow I have a technical test for London, on wednesday a face to face in Edinburgh, a face to face in Leeds (but working from home 3-4 day a week... allegedly)... and others locally as well on thursday / friday. Plus a 12 monther in London.

Im actually thinking about toning down my CV, as everyone wants me to be a team leader, or dev manager... ive done that before and its not my scene.... technical architect is what id like to be.


P.S The phrase was 'your application is on hold'... although the scheduled telephone interview was for 30 minutes but lasted 90... spent a lot of time discussing the technical side and i made alternative suggestions.....
free cosultancy I guess

[Joe Black]

Brussels was one option for a while but after 'positive feedback', I heard nothing official for 10 days, so I gave up on that.

Things sometimes move a little slower here mcquiggd, so you might have still had a result...then you could have joined all us merry englishmen, first round on AJP of course....

[mcquiggd]

It tends to be only people new to contracting that fall for it. After 14+ years in the industry im suprised they even try with me. I normally just laugh a little and say 'I can't divulge who ive had interviews with recently, and id offer you the same courtesy when speaking to other agencies', and 'I will only supply contact details for references when I have a attended an interview / spoken to the client'...

If they dont put you forward its a scam, and the job never existed. No client is going to ASK an agent to do that for every candidate. Effing ridiculous.

If you want to test an agency, just set up a doman for a couple of quid and give them an email address at that domain... youll soon see the spam flooding in. Some managers ive worked with had hotmail accounts they used to filter agency spam.

[Not So Wise]

Is this reference thing that common?

It's common with the "bigger boys", along with a dozen other underhanded practices (well other contractors tell me it is still common with them, not submitted my cv to any of them in years)

Used to be more common with small to mid sized agencys around 2000 but most have stoped now as contractors no longer "play ball" that much as they have been burned so much

[Not So Wise]

This is an example of the many things that agents do for which they do not get paid.

Considering how much of contractors time agents waste on non existing jobs i would say one contractor wasteing agents time like this is like a drop of water, in all the oceans and seas of the world combined.

end client has withdrawn the contract

With at least one of the contracts seems you have possible reason for rate difference. Client put position on market decided they were offering to much, withdrew it and then put it out again at less OR
Manager put it out, realised he could offer less, went to a different agent and cut a deal with them to get a percentage in his pocket as kickbacks from them while charing the company full wack

Then again could be just agents being your normal typical greedy sods

[mcquiggd]

Turned it down... Ive been offered a monday start in exotic Motherwell... the Luxembourg role was permie... dont want to be away from a lady friend that long, so hung in there for a contract I can commute to. Brussels was one option for a while but after 'positive feedback', I heard nothing official for 10 days, so I gave up on that. I have 4 more interviews this week, so I have to give a decision to the NHS pretty quick - I let the agent know I had comitted to other interviews and he seems ok with it.

[BlasterBates]

..so how's the market in dot Net mcguigged, I thought you'd been offered a job in Luxembourg

[mcquiggd]

Intersting thread in another forum here... Dodgy Agency Practices

Should be included in the First Timers section I think.

[mcquiggd]

Yep, I had that too, last week. I just replied that I would only give them when the interview process had started and they tried to blackmail me saying I wouldnt be put forward without them. I just said 'ok, thats a shame'. Later that day I got an email saying my CV had been forwarded to the client. Next time that happens, Im just going to approach an agent I trust and tell them Citibank is recruiting, get in there mate.

[andy]

I also got a call today for a citibank contact
with the standard line of providing 2 references
why tf** they need references before even fixing an interview