Reply to: Roddick vs Federer

[Bagpuss]

The game has evolved, diet better, fitness better the margin between win and lose smaller. It's ridiculuous to compare the 60s 70s or (maybe) even 80s with today. Yes the game was becoming about power, with a few exceptions (Agassi et al). Federer changed that, he has all aspects to his game and wins without outright brute force.
One thing for sure it's unlikely someone like Rod Laver could compete in today's game at only 5ft 8.

[Doggy Styles]

All eras have their top few players.

Today it is no different, there is no less or more talent than older days (making allowances for better fitness and changes in equipment as time rolls on).

The logic being applied by Cyberman today could have been applied to the 1990s when Sampras won so much, or the late seventies when Borg was about. And even the 1960s, when Laver won a lot and could have won more if he'd been allowed.

Were all those eras of less talent?

[DodgyAgent]

That emphasise my point about dirth of talent. Henman reaching number four in the world says it all. Plonker !!

There has never been more than a small handful of great players at any one time.
Interesting to see that you use a lot of "if only" in your arguments.

If only there wasnt a "dearth" of brain between your ears.

[Cyberman]

So you agree it is possible to spot talent even if it is never tested against the best?
I am not a tennis fan, but come on! This is a class act in anybodies book.

Exactly.... which emphasise my point that people should not go by stats alone. There are always other factors that must be weighed against stats. Tim Henman would never have been a number 4 in the world in the 60's or 70's IMO.

[The Lone Gunman]

George Best, one of the greatest footballers of all time never won a World Cup and never even competed in one.

So you agree it is possible to spot talent even if it is never tested against the best?
I am not a tennis fan, but come on! This is a class act in anybodies book.

[realityhack]

Sooner or later, Cyberman, you'll literally be talking to yourself here.

[Cyberman]

CyberTwunt Praises Federer Scandal!!!
CyberTwunt was today quoted as being an out and out supporter of Roger Federer - which came as a huge shock to many people!!!!

CyberTwunt was not approached for clarification so it was assumed that the quote was not misrepresentative in any way!

Tomorrows headline "CyberTwunt - Listens to Someone Elses Opinion!!!!"

Very clever.

[d000hg]

This is the problem with you youngsters. You should have watched the great Ilie Nastase who played amazing shots like that throughout his career. Defensive lobs are so rare nowadays, but they were a regular feature in the 60's and 70's. The modern game with its speed of service etc has driven out many of the most entertaining aspects of the game, so much so that you believe that Federer is so special. I could cry !!

That doesn't mean those players were better. Maybe the racquets/balls/courts have changed so much that to be able to hit such shots is harder now.

Having watched Federer and Nadal both play at their best several times, it's hard to see between them anything that is missing, that "former giants" might have had.

I call nostalgia.

[Cyberman]

I never said stats don't lie. You said they lied with respect to Henman. I disagree. You don't make it to number 4 in the world and reach 6 grand slam semi-finals, win multiple ATP tournaments without being a fantastic player.

I've only ever said it's my opinion.... but my opinion is based on over 40 years of playing and watching tennis. Some of the best players that I have ever watched never won Wimbledon. George Best, one of the greatest footballers of all time never won a World Cup and never even competed in one. Stats do lie if you have only those to rely on.

[Drewster]

Federer is so special I could cry !!

CyberTwunt Praises Federer Scandal!!!
CyberTwunt was today quoted as being an out and out supporter of Roger Federer - which came as a huge shock to many people!!!!

CyberTwunt was not approached for clarification so it was assumed that the quote was not misrepresentative in any way!

Tomorrows headline "CyberTwunt - Listens to Someone Elses Opinion!!!!"

[oracleslave]

So stats don't lie ? Have you never heard of the phrase 'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' ? The case rests.......

I never said stats don't lie. You said they lied with respect to Henman. I disagree. You don't make it to number 4 in the world and reach 6 grand slam semi-finals, win multiple ATP tournaments without being a fantastic player.

[Cyberman]

So the stats are lying and his results don't speak for themselves. When do make the link to a New Lie conspiracy and blame it all on them?

So stats don't lie ? Have you never heard of the phrase 'Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics' ? The case rests.......

[Cyberman]

How do you decide they are/were rubbish? Anyone who's watched Federer play at his best has to admit he's amazing... those defensive lobs against Haas for instance - running back to lob facing the wrong way, it lands right in the opposite corner several times.

This is the problem with you youngsters. You should have watched the great Ilie Nastase who played amazing shots like that throughout his career. Defensive lobs are so rare nowadays, but they were a regular feature in the 60's and 70's. The modern game with its speed of service etc has driven out many of the most entertaining aspects of the game, so much so that you believe that Federer is so special. I could cry !!

[oracleslave]

That emphasise my point about dirth of talent. Henman reaching number four in the world says it all. Plonker !!

So the stats are lying and his results don't speak for themselves. When do make the link to a New Lie conspiracy and blame it all on them?

[d000hg]

That is precisely what I am saying. The guys earlier in Federer's carreer were relative rubbish. Even Henman was regarded as one of the best and he was clearly rubbish. Tennis goes in phases and Federer has been through a phase of dirth of talent IMO. Let's see how well he does from hereon in.

How do you decide they are/were rubbish? Anyone who's watched Federer play at his best has to admit he's amazing... those defensive lobs against Haas for instance - running back to lob facing the wrong way, it lands right in the opposite corner several times.