Reply to: Cycling is, umm, safe

[bobhope]

I seem to remember there was a safety campaign aimed at motorcyclists a couple of years ago which concentrated on educating them to look out for themselves, to be prepared for dangers and the actions of other road users.

The response was for bikers to get very wound up that something wasn't being done to educate the other drivers.

Everyone on the road - drivers, bikers, cyclists, pedestrians - should consider all other road users to be blind, insane, drunk, incompetant, drugged up, half asleep and completely untrained. Then you stand some chance of defending yourself against them. Putting faith in the law and other road users is a suicidal policy.

Excellent summary of road users. Cyclists have to be twice as alert because they are the ones that end up on the losing side in any accident.

[Lockhouse]

I cycle 20 miles per day to and from work in Central London in rush hour. I've been doing this for 3 years. I always cycle defensively and although you can't 100% avoid accidents you can certainly limit the chances of having one by not being stupid. I see lots of cyclists risking serious injury - it doesn't bother me though as if they get knocked off as it keeps my accident chances low by skewing the average. It helps being a car driver as you read the road much better that a cyclist who doesn't have a driver's licence.

I've come off twice in 3 years - once was when I was riding too fast at Winchester station near my house and hit a car side on because I couldn't stop in time. My guard was down because it was a country road. The second time a numpty stepped off a kerb right in front of me in Old Broad St and I hit him in the legs. Luckily both times nothing was broken but as I get older it takes a good few weeks for the bruises to heal.

[minestrone]

Ah that brings back memories, of a geology field trip to the Isle of Arran back in the 70s.

It's a fantastic place, and geologists come from all over the world to look at the diverse geology from north to south.

Fantastic place as you say, although I grew up in the city I was in Arran for about 20% of my childhood as we had a house there. I am saving up to get a second home there, probably something in Brodick. Been across 3 times in the last year to do some ridge walking and each time I get off the ferry the weather turns and not to keen on going up solo when visibility is about 10 meters. Someone died last time I was there. Last time I was up Goat Fell I looked down on 3 harrier jump jets flying through the valley and they were tiny.

[OwlHoot]

No, the chain slipped off the derailleur when changing gear, popped off and jammed in the rear spokes. Million to one and don't blame anyone. We all used to do these hills at 40+ mph as kids, Lamlash to Brodick or the Whiting Bay To Lamlash. It was just bad luck.

Ah that brings back memories, of a geology field trip to the Isle of Arran back in the 70s.

It's a fantastic place, and geologists come from all over the world to look at the diverse geology from north to south.

[VectraMan]

If we're counting deaths per distance, then staying at home is infinitely dangerous.

[mrdonuts]

the answer is cycle on the pavement, that way if you have an accident YOU most likely wont suffer serious injury

[OwlHoot]

Yeah, maybe. In terms of deaths per distance, the space shuttle starts looking good.

In terms of deaths per distance per unit time, being strapped to an ICBM and launched is probably fairly safe.

(although I hasten to add that I haven't attempted any detailed calculations )

[Cyberman]

No, the chain slipped off the derailleur when changing gear, popped off and jammed in the rear spokes. Million to one and don't blame anyone. We all used to do these hills at 40+ mph as kids, Lamlash to Brodick or the Whiting Bay To Lamlash. It was just bad luck.

Not really bad luck, but reckless. If you do 40mph on a bike you are pretty stupid to think that you won't get hurt badly if you come off it. After all, there is a frequent car safety advert that says you should not drive at more than 20 around schools because any speed over that will probably kill.

[minestrone]

Not looking where you are going on a bike at 40 mph is always going to end in tears IMO. Are you saying that you are blaming the gravel for this accident or the one in control of the bike, your parents or whatever??

PZZ

No, the chain slipped off the derailleur when changing gear, popped off and jammed in the rear spokes. Million to one and don't blame anyone. We all used to do these hills at 40+ mph as kids, Lamlash to Brodick or the Whiting Bay To Lamlash. It was just bad luck.

[pzz76077]

My brother nearly killed himself coming off a bike at 40 mph, landed face first on a pile of gravel just after the road had been relayed. Cut his face and hands to hell and spent a week in hospital where it was touch and go if they had to do skin grafts on his face and hands. Scars healed quite well after a couple of years.

To be honest I am not that keen on bikes since that and would resist my children having a bike.

Not looking where you are going on a bike at 40 mph is always going to end in tears IMO. Are you saying that you are blaming the gravel for this accident or the one in control of the bike, your parents or whatever??

PZZ

[d000hg]

It's certainly very sad, but isolated incidents don't prove anything... people get horribly injured doing just about any sport, playing in the garden, or doing any healthily risky childhood activity.

[minestrone]

So, uh, how are you going to react the first time you witness a car accident? Or the first time a relative gets hit by a bus while crossing the road? I take it you will then resist your children having a car, or walking anywhere??

Very odd logic.

When are 13 and you go into a ward 2 days after the accident where your Brother is just coming round and all you can see of him is a mouth and his eyes because his full head is in bandage, his full arms and hands are covered in bandage as well it does change your view of cycling.

That is just my view though, just from personal experience.

[dang65]

Plenty of cyclists are idiots, it's fair to say, and worse they have a "holier than thou" attitude that they don't have to take any resposibility for their own safety because it's the car driver's fault.

I seem to remember there was a safety campaign aimed at motorcyclists a couple of years ago which concentrated on educating them to look out for themselves, to be prepared for dangers and the actions of other road users.

The response was for bikers to get very wound up that something wasn't being done to educate the other drivers.

Everyone on the road - drivers, bikers, cyclists, pedestrians - should consider all other road users to be blind, insane, drunk, incompetant, drugged up, half asleep and completely untrained. Then you stand some chance of defending yourself against them. Putting faith in the law and other road users is a suicidal policy.

[dang65]

My brother nearly killed himself coming off a bike at 40 mph, landed face first on a pile of gravel just after the road had been relayed. Cut his face and hands to hell and spent a week in hospital where it was touch and go if they had to do skin grafts on his face and hands. Scars healed quite well after a couple of years.

To be honest I am not that keen on bikes since that and would resist my children having a bike.

So, uh, how are you going to react the first time you witness a car accident? Or the first time a relative gets hit by a bus while crossing the road? I take it you will then resist your children having a car, or walking anywhere??

Very odd logic.

In fact, one of the main arguments against making cycling helmets compulsory is that they have the effect of putting people off cycling because they don't look cool. And the benefits of cycling far outweigh the risk of banging your head in an accident.

It does take a couple of years to get properly experienced as a cyclist out on the road, but once you've figured out the usual dangers you can predict most of them instinctively and pretty much eliminate risk, leaving you with just the totally unpredictable, which is so small a risk that it pretty much comes down to good or bad luck.

[Shimano105]

Ah, Ken Kifer.

One of those really inspirational cyclists that make you just want to ride a bike for the sake of it. Up there with Sheldon.

Both dead now, but the freak nature of Ken's death somehow doesn't seem to put you off. After all, Fleety bit the dust in a car didn't he and none of us have hung up our keys as a result have we?

Is cycling dangerous? Probably. But it seems more dangerous when observed from a car. If you love it you can never stop.