Reply to: Name & shame - agency chancers.

[Fred Bloggs]

The way I deal with contractors now is little different to how I dealt with them before. If I want some leads from a contractor I would just simply ring him and ask him rather than go through this ridiculous charade of bull**it that you guys go through.

And approached like that, I usually do my best to help. It must cut both ways, because I hardly, if ever, seem to get the "just send us two references" bull that you guys on here seem to suffer from.

[ace00]

Modis were the only agency I liked (a little)

[Fred Bloggs]

In my opinion the UK contract market will never again be the gravy train that it once was and one of the many reasons that contracting in the UK no loner appeals to me.

Sadly, I feel the same way. I have been exploring opportunities in the middle east for the last 9 months and while there are opportunities out there, mostly, the rates are at or below UK rates. The competition for work in the ME by sub-continent nationals is even tougher than here. Who can blame them, if a PhD qualified engineer can be had for £35k to £40k a year why would they want me without a PhD at double that salary?

[Fred Bloggs]

My CV has been on the web for over 10 years. It comes up well on Google searches. I have had many contacts from the web CV over the years: every one from an agent, not one from a potential client.

I do get calls from "clients" but virtually without exception they all want you to tell them how to do things for free. In five years I have managed just one day of paid work from my website.

Clients don't want a contractor, they want someone to find them a contractor. As long as that's so, contractors have little hope. I have more than once found a contract by my own networking, only to be told that I had to pick an agency and go through them.

Yes, happens to me all the time.

[Board Game Geek]

These agents are the last people a contractor should trust to get them a job.

All

[expat]

Trust me () this is a prime example of an agency trying it on. They are too f***ing lazy to find the requirements themselves and they are therefore expecting contractors to do their networking for them.

They would have no qualms about sending in competitive CVs if contractors were indeed foolish enough to give such details. These agents are the last people a contractor should trust to get them a job.

You're too honest for an agent, fellah!

Agents earn their money by creating networks that yield opportunities. ...
If contractors do their own networking then why on earth would they need agents?

Because hiring PMs are a bunch of spineless wimps under the thumb of HR, who think that the way to get a contractor is to get an agency.

My CV has been on the web for over 10 years. It comes up well on Google searches. I have had many contacts from the web CV over the years: every one from an agent, not one from a potential client.

Clients don't want a contractor, they want someone to find them a contractor. As long as that's so, contractors have little hope. I have more than once found a contract by my own networking, only to be told that I had to pick an agency and go through them.

[pzz76077]

Told them to phish off

Your missing an opportunity - one day that new recruit will be an account director and you need to be the first person he tells his juniors to call when that contract of a lifetime come in....

Best bet it to call them up and ask why they think you are the most suitable for this role, tell them you will help them if they can help you etc...ask them if they would mind calling you back when they have something and you will do the same if you hear of anything etc....

Obtaining contracts via agents is all about convincing them that their boss wont fire them for selecting you at the end of the day, and you need a bit of communication to start the ball rolling or they never get to think of you when they have something....you have to start somewhere...

PZZ

[orac]

Got this e-email from modis as well

Told them to phish off

[pzz76077]

Agents earn their money by creating networks that yield opportunities.

Not sure that I would agree with this bit, a good proportion of contracts are won by competitive tender, via Catalyst or some other form of sealed auction so the lowest priced contractor that looks like they can do the job is often successful over their more experienced (and higher priced) peers.

As I said earlier this is the market environment we are working in so I cant blame agents for playing the game by the end clients rules.

The downward pressure on rates in the UK will continue in my view as end clients have so many other options to use that they would automatically use contractors for in the past. The Labor government are not helping the situation by making tax situations difficult for contractors and changes in legislation to make them as much like employees as possible (more of this to come). With the warm reception given to Indian workers at Heathrow that are willing to do our jobs for 20% of what we would charge makes it all the worse.

In my opinion the UK contract market will never again be the gravy train that it once was and one of the many reasons that contracting in the UK no loner appeals to me.

PZZ


PZZ

[pzz76077]

I am not challenging the success of the those ruthless agencies who are considerably more succesful than mine. It is up to me to sell my services in a way that I can beat them.

The way I deal with contractors now is little different to how I dealt with them before. If I want some leads from a contractor I would just simply ring him and ask him rather than go through this ridiculous charade of bull**it that you guys go through. What is interesting is that this is what the business model has come to which is why no single agency has ever dominated the market and why there will always be room for new entrants.

I would agree, honesty is the best policy, maybe that will be the next industry model....possibly not.

I seems to remember posting elsewhere on here that I have 5 or so agents that I trust and will help them to find me a contract and give them 'ins' as often as possible, the rest will get as good as they give....

PZZ

[DodgyAgent]

Nope, just like to give both sides of the fence a fair crack.
I view thekind of agents agents you describe as the same as those working for double glazing companies - if they phone you up and ask if you want double glazing cus its on special offer and you say 'yes', then this is not far removed from someone contacting you to as for references etc.
More fool you for falling for the oldest trick in the book.

Agents (good or bad) have their place and it seems to me that some of the ones accused of dubious methods on here are amongst the ones that have been around for donkeys years and consistently have the best sales results, so they must be doing something right!

I assume that you frown on such practices because you believe that you are older and wiser than they. But I would imagine that when you started, you adopted the practices common in the industry at that time. Most of the kids that you criticize are where you were then, only accepted practices have changed substantially over the years and we are where we are because that is what the market demands. If this was not the case, then there would be no money in it and would not be happening.

I cant think of an industry that is market driven as is the IT contracting scene, and lets face it, there are far too many agents and contractors than are needed to satisfy clients demands and many will disappear in the short term. In the mean time both agents and contractors will try everything in their power to survive. Many will fail....so I guess that there will be less for folk on here to complain about!

PZZ

I am not challenging the success of the those ruthless agencies who are considerably more succesful than mine. It is up to me to sell my services in a way that I can beat them.

The way I deal with contractors now is little different to how I dealt with them before. If I want some leads from a contractor I would just simply ring him and ask him rather than go through this ridiculous charade of bull**it that you guys go through. What is interesting is that this is what the business model has come to which is why no single agency has ever dominated the market and why there will always be room for new entrants.

[pzz76077]

Agents earn their money by creating networks that yield opportunities. Contractors earn their money by sitting in front of a computer and writing abuse about us poor agents on CUK ()
If contractors do their own networking then why on earth would they need agents. Agents who work hard and create their own networks honestly will earn the trust of contractors and clients alike. What you are endorsing is that agents who lie and decieve should be encouraged and rewarded.

I am afraid I do not support your view sunshine- and I strongly suspect that you are an agent yourself.

Nope, just like to give both sides of the fence a fair crack.
I view thekind of agents agents you describe as the same as those working for double glazing companies - if they phone you up and ask if you want double glazing cus its on special offer and you say 'yes', then this is not far removed from someone contacting you to as for references etc.
More fool you for falling for the oldest trick in the book.

Agents (good or bad) have their place and it seems to me that some of the ones accused of dubious methods on here are amongst the ones that have been around for donkeys years and consistently have the best sales results, so they must be doing something right!

I assume that you frown on such practices because you believe that you are older and wiser than they. But I would imagine that when you started, you adopted the practices common in the industry at that time. Most of the kids that you criticize are where you were then, only accepted practices have changed substantially over the years and we are where we are because that is what the market demands. If this was not the case, then there would be no money in it and would not be happening.

I cant think of an industry that is market driven as is the IT contracting scene, and lets face it, there are far too many agents and contractors than are needed to satisfy clients demands and many will disappear in the short term. In the mean time both agents and contractors will try everything in their power to survive. Many will fail....so I guess that there will be less for folk on here to complain about!

PZZ

[DodgyAgent]

Too true, but it seems that many contractors want agents to THEIR networking for them also, so cuts both ways I suppose.

These agents are just trying to make a living the easiest way they can and I cant blame them for that.

Most contractors also use the easiest way to make a living - via agents. All fair in love and war etc.

That said I would be the first in line if it was possible get a contact by simply filling in a form at the Post Office!

PZZ

Agents earn their money by creating networks that yield opportunities. Contractors earn their money by sitting in front of a computer and writing abuse about us poor agents on CUK ()
If contractors do their own networking then why on earth would they need agents. Agents who work hard and create their own networks honestly will earn the trust of contractors and clients alike. What you are endorsing is that agents who lie and decieve should be encouraged and rewarded.

I am afraid I do not support your view sunshine- and I strongly suspect that you are an agent yourself.

[pzz76077]

Trust me () this is a prime example of an agency trying it on. They are too f***ing lazy to find the requirements themselves and they are therefore expecting contractors to do their networking for them.

They would have no qualms about sending in competitive CVs if contractors were indeed foolish enough to give such details. These agents are the last people a contractor should trust to get them a job.

Too true, but it seems that many contractors want agents to THEIR networking for them also, so cuts both ways I suppose.

These agents are just trying to make a living the easiest way they can and I cant blame them for that.

Most contractors also use the easiest way to make a living - via agents. All fair in love and war etc.

That said I would be the first in line if it was possible get a contact by simply filling in a form at the Post Office!

PZZ

[BrilloPad]

I am disappointed with modis. They are my agency currently and as an agency to work through I highly recommend them : as I would recommend my pimp.

I bet this did not come out of the LOndon office.