Reply to: Get a real job?

[expat]

....
I got into Siebel by accident in 1998 ‘for a few months – it’ll never catch on” and I wrongly called time on it on several occasions. It is indeed Oracles main offering and there isn’t anything that will replace it in the foreseeable future.

How long can you hold out?

Yeah, me too: into it by accident round about then. Your analysis of why there is no Siebel contract work in the UK seems spot on. OTOH as long as I am prepared to travel to work, it doesn't seem to me to make much sense to look for some other area of work.

But even in Europe, as you say a lot of vacancies are being filled internally. Half my contracts have been with or via IBM, and IBM everywhere is now "internal only" except in special cases (I have heard of such cases but not managed to become one).

Thanks for the analysis. BTW I have since February only had 2 prospects get me as far as talking to anyone farther down the line than my own pimp: both in France. I wonder if the French's famous distaste for people who don't speak fluent French may turn out to be my saviour? Subcontinentals are not making big inroads there.

How long can I hold out? About another month in good shape; or until about the end of the year but by then I really need a contract to catch up again.

[TimberWolf]

I'm a contractor, not a conman

That's what did me in.

[Rantor]

Quite so, Francko, but actually I do want to live in England, that is the problem. In former times I would be happy to go wherever the work was. Now I want to live in England, specifically, for personal reasons, and I'm finding it hard-to-impossible to find work here.

Hi Expat.

Sorry to hear see your woes building up. The weird thing is, there really has been less Siebel stuff in the UK than in Europe since 2001/2002 other than the big public sector projects, but that is mostly down to most of the dev being done by Indian companies – I can’t think of one new private sector project in Britain within the last 5 yrs that has not been configured in Bangalore. I had a call from a pimp yesterday who told me that uk rates for Siebel and SAP were at their lowest ever.

In terms of work, there are still requirements coming up in euroland but a lot of these are being filled by the consultancies internally.

License sales to the finance sector have tanked and a lot of projects have been canned hence the big integrators have busy benches. On the plus side, pharma and telcos are doing ok plus the big semi-puplic sector organisations that need to start competing fro work.

I got into Siebel by accident in 1998 ‘for a few months – it’ll never catch on” and I wrongly called time on it on several occasions. It is indeed Oracles main offering and there isn’t anything that will replace it in the foreseeable future.

How long can you hold out?

[expat]

How long can the low rates be substained. Sure the cheap indian comes here thinking £200 a day is a lot of money. Then he realises the hell hole he has to live in when he wants to bring his wife over and the cost of food, a car, a holiday back home etc etc, then the rate is not so attractive.

I don't think so: there is an effectively endless supply of competent Indian programmers willing to work here on low rates, stay in a very cheap flatshare, and save all their money for when they go back home.

[alreadypacked]

Could you go on a SAP course?

SAP course in Eastern Europe, were quite cheap.

[MPwannadecentincome]

* Recent efforts from the government might also reduce the UK market in such a state (especially if they allow cheap indian contractors to replace local ones at half the price)

How long can the low rates be substained. Sure the cheap indian comes here thinking £200 a day is a lot of money. Then he realises the hell hole he has to live in when he wants to bring his wife over and the cost of food, a car, a holiday back home etc etc, then the rate is not so attractive.

[MPwannadecentincome]

That's worthy of an answer, but the answer is no, you're wrong.

The question remains, why for goodness' sake are there no Siebel jobs in England? Is is really that nobody uses it, whereas they do all over Europe?

And if that's true, how do I go about cross-training? I have in the past deliberately taken 2 separate contracts because they promised contact woth SAP; it didn't materialise. Now in this market, it's hard to see how to cross into different skills: it's hard enough finding work with the skills you do have, never mind working with skills that you don't have yet. here's my CV with 9 years good Siebel experience, I'm interested in your SAP BI Oracle DBA whatever post.... call me a pessimist, but I don't think so.

But I would love to hear advice on cross-training.....

Could you go on a SAP course?

[expat]

...
So again, no excuse, if you don't feel like living in England you don't have to explain anything to anybody.
...

Quite so, Francko, but actually I do want to live in England, that is the problem. In former times I would be happy to go wherever the work was. Now I want to live in England, specifically, for personal reasons, and I'm finding it hard-to-impossible to find work here.

[Amiga500]

I am unaware of any oracle related skill that pays anything near decent enough for contractors that can be picked up by reading a book. It takes years of experience.

HTH.

Sorry, next time I will include <joke></joke> tags for those that miss the subtlety.

[Pickle2]

And how would you do that if you have invented work experience to get you through the door..? Wouldn't you look a bit silly if you had to consult your "Oracle for dummies" for even the simplest of questions?

We are talking about getting a SAP job after years spent doing a similar role but using Siebel AND having done lots of home training on SAP.

Its hardly putting David Beckham into space is it?

[oracleslave]

No, you read the 'For Dummies' book BEFORE you get on-site... HTH

I am unaware of any oracle related skill that pays anything near decent enough for contractors that can be picked up by reading a book. It takes years of experience.

HTH.

[Amiga500]

And how would you do that if you have invented work experience to get you through the door..? Wouldn't you look a bit silly if you had to consult your "Oracle for dummies" for even the simplest of questions?

No, you read the 'For Dummies' book BEFORE you get on-site... HTH

[XperTest]

You're conning noone as long as you can do the job well when you get onsite.

And how would you do that if you have invented work experience to get you through the door..? Wouldn't you look a bit silly if you had to consult your "Oracle for dummies" for even the simplest of questions?

[Torrango]

I think a big part of the problem is that if your skills are solely technical, which is generally the case with contractors, the equivalent permie jobs are likely to be career dead ends and not generally well paid since they attract the kind of people that aren't very ambitious and just want a bit of "security". So for example if you're some kind of Siebel EIM guru, permie jobs are always going to be a let down. The decent permie Siebel jobs in the UK will likely be for programme managers and architects heading up a CRM team where most of the tech work is offshore or done by domestic/eu contractors. In general these jobs will need good people management skills and industry knowledge.

I guess a middle ground alternative is to work permie at a big SI, climb the ladder and then jump ship to a client in a more senior role.

[Francko]

But that won't get me a job in England. What skills does one need then to get a job in England? Skills that one can study, or cross into?

True that if you are new to the area you cannot command the highest rate or perhaps have to accept a 6-month/1 year job as a permie. However as a long term contractor you certainly know how to see this in perspective.

So again, no excuse, if you don't feel like living in England you don't have to explain anything to anybody. I don't have to do this either.

Anyway there is something in England too...

http://www.jobserve.com/W3B831B4A9ED72ADA.jsjob