Reply to: Jobstats graph, May worse than 2001

[HeadOfTesting]

i mean no offence, just making you think. Your forum id is "HeadOfTesting" and you sign your post as "HeadOfTesting" and I just wonder what your CV reads like? Maybe try lowering your "head" position to be a position more popular such as Test manager or Test Team lead and apply for such positions. In my opinion if a position as Head of Testing exists in some companies (and I`ve yet to see this position),i would see it as next to a senior managemnent postion in the career path and you therefore might not be considered for lowly positions as Test Team Lead or Test Manager. I know someone who has just landed a testing position and the next day even with hardly any management experience was also offered a test manager contract also so there is work out there. Maybe try selling yourself at these poisitions?

No offence taken.

My CV reflects my progression from test analyst to head of testing via team leadership, test management and test programme management. It's very grounded and fairly technical in its focus.

I have been applying for test manager positions and test programme manager positions but not team leading because they invariably require the candidate to still be hands on with scripting etc. I've not done that since 2003 and with a warchest that can last over 25 years if necessary I'm not interested or motivated to go back to that stuff; I'd rather start a new business (and am working on that actively at the moment).

Head Of Testing is a common position (but by no means universal as your experience reflects) and it is typically a senior position (awarding 3rd party contracts, overseeing tens and sometimes hundreds of people etc). So I'm pleased it sounds senior to you because it is.

Your colleague has been extremely lucky - the testing market has been totally blown away and whilst I don't know the details I would suggest that your anecdote probably reflects the desire by clients to get 2 roles (test practitioner and test manager) for one pay cheque .

I accept that very senior roles are far less common than those roles at the coal face and that's fine by me because as I say I've come too far to go back and am relaxed about never working in testing again if need be.

That said, I was told yesterday that I'm getting a permie interview some time next week. In that case they are looking for 3 roles from one pay cheque but I feel I need the interview practise.

Good luck to everyone.

HeadOfTesting

[HeadOfTesting]

IMHO, the downturn in 2001 seemed much worse, mainly due to the HUGE boom we had from 98-00 with Y2K, .com and the euro all happening at roughly the same time.

This time round, we've had an upturn, but nothing like the same magnitude. My rates over the past 2 years never reached the peaks of 2000 nominally, never mind in real terms.

Same for me in relative terms. From memory I was on £440pd as a test analyst in London in 2001 but was on £650pd as a HeadOfTesting in my most recent role. That shows how overbought the market was last time.

HeadOfTesting

[bobhope]

IMHO, the downturn in 2001 seemed much worse, mainly due to the HUGE boom we had from 98-00 with Y2K, .com and the euro all happening at roughly the same time.

This time round, we've had an upturn, but nothing like the same magnitude. My rates over the past 2 years never reached the peaks of 2000 nominally, never mind in real terms.

[BrowneIssue]

At what stage will the open door immigration, fast track visa, outsourcing, etc policy be reviewed?

Based on the 2001 experience, about 2012.

[Fred Bloggs]

Yeah, the over 50s may be totally screwed.

To be honest though, in engineering, age seems to be no bar presently. On my current job there's a 68 and a 67 year old both doing just as good work as the 20 somethings.

[HairyArsedBloke]

At what stage will the open door immigration, fast track visa, outsourcing, etc policy be reviewed? When we get to 4 million unemployed, 5 million, 50 million? After UK goes bust? When we start hanging MPs and corporate bosses from lampposts?

Sadly, yes it WILL have to go that far before anything will be 'considered'.

[SuperZ]

I was benched for a total of 15 months during 2001/2 and knew two people who were literally working for the train fare.

So far I've found this time to be better and worse in different respects. I've found there are virtually no opportunities. I've been on the bench for just over 5 months. In that time I've (allegedly) gone forward for 6 roles (4 perm, 2 contract) and not had so much as a telephone interview. That said I've found that rates/salaries have held up much better this time - at least for now.

HeadOfTesting.

i mean no offence, just making you think. Your forum id is "HeadOfTesting" and you sign your post as "HeadOfTesting" and I just wonder what your CV reads like? Maybe try lowering your "head" position to be a position more popular such as Test manager or Test Team lead and apply for such positions. In my opinion if a position as Head of Testing exists in some companies (and I`ve yet to see this position),i would see it as next to a senior managemnent postion in the career path and you therefore might not be considered for lowly positions as Test Team Lead or Test Manager. I know someone who has just landed a testing position and the next day even with hardly any management experience was also offered a test manager contract also so there is work out there. Maybe try selling yourself at these poisitions?

[TimberWolf]

Actually, I'm certain there is already more than 6 or 7 million unemployed in the UK when you add in all those on benefits other than job seekers allowance and all those over 50's "too old, unemployables" who want to work but are scraping by in the cash in hand black economy etc...

Yeah, the over 50s may be totally screwed.

[Fred Bloggs]

Actually, I'm certain there is already more than 6 or 7 million unemployed in the UK when you add in all those on benefits other than job seekers allowance and all those over 50's "too old, unemployables" who want to work but are scraping by in the cash in hand black economy etc...

[TimberWolf]

More cheapness will help UK PLC.

More cheapness is fine by me, but why not spread it around a bit?

[expat]

At what stage will the open door immigration, fast track visa, outsourcing, etc policy be reviewed? When we get to 4 million unemployed, 5 million, 50 million? After UK goes bust? When we start hanging MPs and corporate bosses from lampposts?

You will be watched (at least) for saying that, as they begin to realise that things like that may happen.

As for these policies, as long as those in charge don't actually suffer, they won't see those as causes of problems, but as solutions that we need ever more of. More cheapness will help UK PLC. You and I will just be drains on the economy, not the people that it is there for.

[TimberWolf]

At what stage will the open door immigration, fast track visa, outsourcing, etc policy be reviewed? When we get to 4 million unemployed, 5 million, 50 million? After UK goes bust? When we start hanging MPs and corporate bosses from lampposts?

[Fred Bloggs]

In the process industries, which has been my meal ticket for over 35 years, there is totally zip, nada, nothing. Worryingly, several firms that managed to survive >100 years have gone bust this year. Several large contract houses have pulled out of the area taking jobs with them. Those that remain are only employing staff people which no doubt they'll sack anyway if work dries up. I have honestly, never, ever seen anything like it in my industry.

[expat]

I think it is far, far worse and only just beginning....
I think we/I am truly fooked and expect to have a good year emptying my bank account before a lengthy spell on the dole followed by retirement on minimal state pension (if I qualify).

That's my current Plan B. I'm looking for a C.

[Shimano105]

I think it is far, far worse and only just beginning.

Things have slowed down noticeably even in the last month. Whereas in 2001 there were some crappy low paid contracts about on industrial estates around Leeds, this time there is absolutely.... nothing, not one single development contract in the whole of Yorkshire (big county with some large IT centres, traditionally).

Even bid-for-work sites have a hundred bids taking a 'full replication of Google' requirement down to a fixed term bid of 2 rupees.

I think we/I am truly fooked and expect to have a good year emptying my bank account before a lengthy spell on the dole followed by retirement on minimal state pension (if I qualify).

But that's me being overly optimistic there.