Reply to: contractors getting slagged off by permies after they leave their contract,references

[Rebecca Loos]

Rule 54 of Permiedom
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Always try and team up with a contractor, as you can take the credit for their work, while pushing their way the blame for your crap work

[BlasterBates]

Rule 53 of Contracting
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Always criticise permies behind their backs.

[steve'O]

Well said! SandyDown well said!
Thats why I prefer the humorous approach on this site, the stuffy approach transmits too much of a superior manor.

By the way what would you like to have been I would be a Gigalo

[SandyDown]

Sandy, is the contractor acting in an unprofessional manner, or a professional manner? OK, there are ways to phrase criticism (it should be diplomatic), but I would argue the job is to point out failings.

If I weighed 25st and went to my doctor complaining that I couldn't breath properly, felt tired, couldn't work (etc.), what should he do? Should the doctor pat me on the back, or should he point out that I'm overweight and need to lose some otherwise I could die.

I have seen so many clients waste public money through incompetence, only to complain that nothing ever gets done properly. OK, are you serious about making the organisation more efficient? Good, in that case this is what's wrong and this is what you need to do to solve it...

Voron,
the doctor should tell you that you are overweight, but it is unprofessional, and even illegal for the doctor to sit in the pub shooting his mouth to all your relatives, work colleagues and clients about your medical problems and the fact that you may die (its called data protection act)!!!


As a manager I presume you have team members, if you your team member was going round to clients and managements criticising the team's work to the client constantly, though he knows more than anyone why things needed to be done in a less tha perfect way (i.e. the client is not cooperating, and the team is trying hard to correct things that has been missed etc) would you say that is professional, I think if he comes to you as a manager and explains his point of view in a one to one or even in one of the team meetings then I think this is professional, but to start shooting his mouth and deliberatly putting his permie team mates (who I think are working incredibly hard) and pretending to be so righteous is very unprofessional.


Rebecca: my point here is am fed up with all contractors here think that they are sooooo superior to anyone else, the fact is being a contractor means you like to work independently, i.e. most are not good team players,
I met some incredibly bitter and cowboys contractors, and I met some very very good contractors too ... exactly like permies some good and some bad.

[BlasterBates]

Why the fuss, its quite simple really:


Permie =

Contractor =

+ =

[Rebecca Loos]

Franco, I was trying to highlight a trend, rather than a full blown generalisation. You are right, it is not right to apply the same pattern to all permies, or all contractors.

What I should have said is that successful contractors are professional.

But you will say "so do successful permies"

This is true.

Maybe the truth is that an unsuccessful contractor will die, whereas an unsuccessful permie can survive, even if he/sha can say good bye to promotions.

Oh and yes I'd love to be a writer funnily enough!
But I will have to forget it then

[voron]

Sandy, is the contractor acting in an unprofessional manner, or a professional manner? OK, there are ways to phrase criticism (it should be diplomatic), but I would argue the job is to point out failings.

If I weighed 25st and went to my doctor complaining that I couldn't breath properly, felt tired, couldn't work (etc.), what should he do? Should the doctor pat me on the back, or should he point out that I'm overweight and need to lose some otherwise I could die.

I have seen so many clients waste public money through incompetence, only to complain that nothing ever gets done properly. OK, are you serious about making the organisation more efficient? Good, in that case this is what's wrong and this is what you need to do to solve it...

[Francko]

Sandy, this has got nothing to do with the fact that he is a contractor - if he was a permie, he'd do the same. There are some bad contractors, there are some bad permies. There are some good contractors, there are some good permies (OK I am stretching it there, but bear with me)

I don't think there are any reasons to think contractors are more unprofessional than permies. There will always be the odd exception, but since we contractors have to be professional at all times to survive (permies don't have to), on average contractors behave better.

A lot of unprofessional behaviour comes from office politics, and permies are usually more involved in that.

This post really shows your intricate personality. In the first part you start off with a theory against stupid generalisations but soon it completely contradicts his beginning ("we contractors have to be professional at all times to survive(permies don't have to)"). "A lot of unprofessional behaviour comes from office politics"... but not only as in this case (what does this statement has to do with the context?). Becca, what are you going to do when you grow up? I suggest you not to become a writer.

[Rebecca Loos]

Sandy, this has got nothing to do with the fact that he is a contractor - if he was a permie, he'd do the same. There are some bad contractors, there are some bad permies. There are some good contractors, there are some good permies (OK I am stretching it there, but bear with me)

I don't think there are any reasons to think contractors are more unprofessional than permies. There will always be the odd exception, but since we contractors have to be professional at all times to survive (permies don't have to), on average contractors behave better.

A lot of unprofessional behaviour comes from office politics, and permies are usually more involved in that.

[SandyDown]

well funny this subject is discussed today, there is this contractor who is working in the same team as I, the team members are consultants both the permies and the contractors are business analysts working on a project for a client, the contractor is employed by the consultancy, we are running some elaboration workshops at the moment, we all knew there will be some hiccups, (this is because the client doesn't know what the hell they want and its like drawing blood out a stone when we try to define requirements or business rules)... during the workshops the contractor openly criticises the way the team members did some work - in front of the client- although he is well aware why things were had to be done in specific way, once more I was really angry last night when the team took the clients for a meal, he had a couple of pints and started criticising again the team, to me he is acting in a highly unprofessional way, I found the team to be really accommodating of his opinion, and willing to give and take and learn, there was no need for him to bite the hand that feeds him, I personally went to his manager (in the pub) and told him that I think this contractor must go soon, his constant comments is damaging the relationship of the team with the client, I don't care how experienced he is, he is not being a good or a loyal team member ....

moral of the story , some contractors don't know how to be part of a team, and behave in a totally unprofessional way...

[TwoWolves]

I have worked at places that are chokka with contractors and everyone does their job, has a laugh and when we are finished...Dam it! Everything works properly!

Then again, I have worked at places where I am surrounded by permies. I call these the 'Rose Garden' places cos they are full of pr*cks! All except me of course.

Too true!

[premiere]

I have worked at places that are chokka with contractors and everyone does their job, has a laugh and when we are finished...Dam it! Everything works properly!

Then again, I have worked at places where I am surrounded by permies. I call these the 'Rose Garden' places cos they are full of pr*cks! All except me of course.

[ratewhore]

Never happened to me so can't comment. I would say though that it is sometimes beneficial to pay for a team curry or round of beers where permies wouldn't put their hands in their pockets as it tends to build a bit of team spirit blah, blah, blah...

Or at the very least they don't think you're a ******!!

[AlfredJPruffock]

and whether resentful or not, some permies (and occasionally contractors!) see a departed contractor as someone on whom to shift blame if they can.

This applies especially to the more useless ones, who have to develop their scheming and buck-passing abilities to compensate for their technical and other shortcomings.

How very true OH

Upon reflection I find that nowadays there is a great deal of resentment and backstabbing and ill feeling amogst workers at all levels in orgnaisations and the upshot is ,nobody has a good word to say about anybody.

Therefore due to this bitteness nobody is assured of a good reference irrespective of the quality of their work.

This just about devalues any point of a reference apart from establishing you actually worked for the aforementioned during a certain period.


Has anybody else noticed how friendly people are these days ?

[OwlHoot]

In truth no matter how nice you are to the permies there will always be someone who dislikes you.

and whether resentful or not, some permies (and occasionally contractors!) see a departed contractor as someone on whom to shift blame if they can.

This applies especially to the more useless ones, who have to develop their scheming and buck-passing abilities to compensate for their technical and other shortcomings.