Reply to: Managers are tulip

[shaunbhoy]

most managers sole interst in climbing the greasy pole at the expense of all others.

they have no hesitation in lying, cheating or being deceitful to get what they want.

they rarely support their staff

when given a bonus pot for them and their staff they will invariable keep the majority for themselves

they will take the credit for any good work and ensure that the blame for any errors are passed onto their staff

they often earn their positions by kissing azz and never ever stand up for you when questioned by their boss.

decision made are based on what is best for them - never what is best for the company or with any interest in the impact it may have on the staff

they expect everyone to work extra hours for free and yet when asked for a payrise take it as a personal insult

Maybe this is what makes a good manager nowadays cos that is what I seem to see from people in management postions.

obviously this is all doing the UK economy loads of good given the current boom times we are in

Good God! I had no idea you worked for Motorola!!
Bad luck!

[MPwannadecentincome]

Mich - quite a good list for starters! I'd like to think that I fit all of those!

and for this...

Mitch as a PM I agree with the points you posted at the start of the thread.

When it comes to the "Team Player" argument, as someone that's led loads of them I feel that a team player has to have these attributes:-

• Gets on with the tasks set in an efficient manner
• Reports honestly and concisely on progress if asked
• Will honestly, calmly and frankly point out problems if they arise
• Will offer advice at meetings, not be afraid to contradict other peoples views, but will accept other peoples views as valid
• Will listen
• Is prepared to help out a team member with advice or actual assistance if they have time
• Is prepared to ask for help
• Not be arrogant despite having better knowledge and skills
• Be professional and friendly at all times

Oh and I agree totally on the giving of credit.

a good list too, though I would add that the team is not always the 'development team' or 'test team' or 'support team' or whatever, it can be the 'virtual team' of the different groups involved in the project - every one has to be able to work with everyone else effectively even its a developer training up or helping a support person or explaining to a user why something works the way it does.

[original PM]

most managers sole interst in climbing the greasy pole at the expense of all others.

they have no hesitation in lying, cheating or being deceitful to get what they want.

they rarely support their staff

when given a bonus pot for them and their staff they will invariable keep the majority for themselves

they will take the credit for any good work and ensure that the blame for any errors are passed onto their staff

they often earn their positions by kissing azz and never ever stand up for you when questioned by their boss.

decision made are based on what is best for them - never what is best for the company or with any interest in the impact it may have on the staff

they expect everyone to work extra hours for free and yet when asked for a payrise take it as a personal insult

Maybe this is what makes a good manager nowadays cos that is what I seem to see from people in management postions.

obviously this is all doing the UK economy loads of good given the current boom times we are in

[TykeMerc]

Mitch as a PM I agree with the points you posted at the start of the thread.

When it comes to the "Team Player" argument, as someone that's led loads of them I feel that a team player has to have these attributes:-

• Gets on with the tasks set in an efficient manner
• Reports honestly and concisely on progress if asked
• Will honestly, calmly and frankly point out problems if they arise
• Will offer advice at meetings, not be afraid to contradict other peoples views, but will accept other peoples views as valid
• Will listen
• Is prepared to help out a team member with advice or actual assistance if they have time
• Is prepared to ask for help
• Not be arrogant despite having better knowledge and skills
• Be professional and friendly at all times

Oh and I agree totally on the giving of credit.

[Ivor Bigun]

Are you nitpicking and stalling me here?

Andrew Carnegie
No man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself, or to get all the credit for doing it.

[shaunbhoy]

I prefer to get hold of a big complicated issue and work through it bit by bit on my own

There is no "I" in "team" Mich!!

HTH

[Dark Black]

Remember the old saying...

Those that can do... Those that can't, become managers

[suityou01]

Are you describing yourself here Suityou01?

Are you nitpicking and stalling me here?

[Ivor Bigun]

Sometimes the team can hold back the one individual who just needs some alone time to think things through and then hand back the conclusion to the rest of the team who accept their learned colleagues assessment rather than nitpick and stall unnecessarily.

Are you describing yourself here Suityou01?

[expat]

...Select a good bunch of people and then don’t spoil it.

[expat]

Not have their hormones controlled by a monthly cycle

PMS: the way that, just before their periods, some women act the way men act all the time.

[Mich the Tester]

Totally agree. This team playing thing only works if the team works as a team. Normally the term "team player" is only used to take a pop at someone.

He/She is not a great team player.

Whereas if you are a good team player is goes unnoticed. Sometimes the team can hold back the one individual who just needs some alone time to think things through and then hand back the conclusion to the rest of the team who accept their learned colleagues assessment rather than nitpick and stall unnecessarily.

I think the ‘team player’ thing is a sports analogy. I’ve played a team sport for most of my life, with a fair bit of success; my rugby team won promotion this season and will be playing in the national divisions of Dutch rugby next year; not a high level like in England, but nevertheless a big success for a small club. What I’ve noticed about successful sports teams is that the players all have confidence in each other, not in spite of, but because of their varied characters and skills. Some of the guys are quiet both on the field and off, others can make a huge contribution with an exceptional bit of skill for a few seconds at a time and grab the headlines whether they like it or not. Others, like me, are big lumpy sods who just shut up and shove, but don’t really care about individual glory and try to motivate their team mates.

Once everyone accepts each other for who they are and agrees to go for a real goal, it’s surprising what a small bunch of motivated people can do. Nobody is judged on their words, but everyone’s actions are viewed by the coach, who then gives people a positive message about what they can improve and how to improve it; obviously there’s an occasional bollocking for the forwards who can’t resist holding farting competitions while the backs are practising their double-scissors-loop-around-dummy moves, but it’s only a very occasional bollocking. Basically you have a good bunch of people who are each individually committed to what they’re doing; from 18 year old wingers to forwards like me ion the wrong side of 35, everyone wants the same thing and will turn up to train and keep himself fit in his own time. Select a good bunch of people and then don’t spoil it, seems to be our coach’s and our captain’s motto.

[Cliphead]

Do you ever stop bitching?

[suityou01]

Not have their hormones controlled by a monthly cycle

You were tolling Churchill about his religious beliefs yesterday. Now this. Take a holiday, seriously.

[suityou01]

Maybe I’m not really the team type, no. I prefer to get hold of a big complicated issue and work through it bit by bit on my own, calling in people to help where needed. I don’t think this ‘teamwork’ idea is always the best way to do things; sometimes you need a clever, highly trained individual who can take an independent look at things, instead of general agreement among all and sundry.

Totally agree. This team playing thing only works if the team works as a team. Normally the term "team player" is only used to take a pop at someone.

He/She is not a great team player.

Whereas if you are a good team player is goes unnoticed. Sometimes the team can hold back the one individual who just needs some alone time to think things through and then hand back the conclusion to the rest of the team who accept their learned colleagues assessment rather than nitpick and stall unnecessarily.