Reply to: If the Tories had been in power things would probably be worse

[Cyberman]

He who ignores history is destined never to learn from it. All but the most hard of thinking, reflex, cretinous socialists in this country must accept after the best part of a century that the Labour party's incompetence with public money and fiscal policy knows no bounds, never has, and never will.

I couldn't agree more. What really concerns me now is that all caution has been thrown to the wind. We used to worry about spending an extra 500 million on schools or hospitals, but now throwing 12.5 Billion away on a VAT cut that won't work is considered ok.
I really despair because somebody has to pay for this eventually, as well as the 1 trillion in public sector pensions, numerous tranches of 20 Billion to the banks(sorry but I have lost count) etc etc. The taxes required will take so much out of the economy that we will be in a never-ending recession, all because Labour are trying to win votes.

[d000hg]

UK population 60,943,912 (July 2008 est.) source
US population 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.) source

~5 times as much

That site also reckons UK military budget is 2.4% of GDP, US is 4%.

[zathras]

If, as is commonly believed, this recession/depression has been caused by

(1) the securitisation of sub-prime mortgages by financial firms combined with
(2) an overly lax monetary policy i.e. too low interest rates

then logically as the Tories traditionally support more deregulation and lower interest rates, we would have been no better under them and arguably worse.

I now await the hard of thinking, reflex, cretinous Tories on this forum, but I would ask them to address the logic of this post rather than behave like chimps prodded in a laboratory.

Not neccasarily.

Both could have been dealt with by having a regulator who could check the Bank's exposure. That could have been the BoE who were given the job of regulation by the Tories after the Nick Leeson affair. The FSA has proven ineffectual, unable to understand what they were regulating and under funded to boot.

Further if housing was kept in the inflation calulation (by using RPI rather than CPI) then we could have avoided the boom in house prices

Equally if the Bank had not been given such a narrow remit (basically just inflation) it could have ensured that policy prevented instabilities from forming

Third even if the freeze in Bank Credit was repeated spending tends to go down in the good times thereby giving more money to deal with the problem when it arose.

[Sysman]

Is the US military that much bigger as a % of population or GDP than the UK... there are a LOT more people in the US than the UK.

UK population 60,943,912 (July 2008 est.) source
US population 303,824,640 (July 2008 est.) source

~5 times as much

[Mich the Tester]

Yes, but my list is of things costing us the most.

You think all those wars are cheap?

Probably are compared to bank bailouts, NHS systems and ID cards though.

[Doggy Styles]

Erm, killing off civil liberties, following Mr Bush to Iraq, spending years negotiating with the IRA and still failing to get rid of Northern Ireland, we could make this a very long list, although it wouldn’t surprise me if the other lot would have done these things.

Yes, but my list is of things costing us the most.

[Sysman]

Yeah fair point, I was pleased when Labour came to power. The Conservatives needed a good kick up the proverbial.

But now it is the same with labour; even if the Tories wouldn't have handled this much better. They are now an effective opposition, and are developing policies which are realistic, and in touch with the public. So I would be far more confident with a Tory government after the next election.

They were for far too long an ineffective opposition.

[DimPrawn]

Well they seemed very quiet in opposition, except for the time when they gave Blair a standing ovation, so I regard them as being accessories to all that happened. At the very least, they failed in opposition.

So it wasn't the left wing controlled media selectively showing Nu Lab in a good light and cutting the opposition out then?

[TimberWolf]

Erm, killing off civil liberties, following Mr Bush to Iraq, spending years negotiating with the IRA and still failing to get rid of Northern Ireland, we could make this a very long list, although it wouldn’t surprise me if the other lot would have done these things.

Well they seemed very quiet in opposition, except for the time when they gave Blair a standing ovation, so I regard them as being accessories to all that happened. At the very least, they failed in opposition.

[Mich the Tester]

I think I covered all that in my short but simple history lesson. If you must go into details, the three worst mistakes of the current lot are:

1. Buggering up bank regulators (which you mentioned)

2. Grossly expanding our public servant pension commitments while at the same time slashing our private pension funds

3. Losing control of immigration

In my humble opinion of course.

Erm, killing off civil liberties, following Mr Bush to Iraq, spending years negotiating with the IRA and still failing to get rid of Northern Ireland, we could make this a very long list, although it wouldn’t surprise me if the other lot would have done these things.

[Doggy Styles]

I think I covered all that in my short but simple history lesson. If you must go into details, the three worst mistakes of the current lot are:

1. Buggering up bank regulators (which you mentioned)

2. Grossly expanding our public servant pension commitments while at the same time slashing our private pension funds

3. Losing control of immigration

In my humble opinion of course.

[Cyberman]

No, I have just logged back on after a break from the boards.

The Tories would not have been so bad because:

1) Taxes, borrowing and spending would not be out of control. Labour always spend more than can be afforded and that is a recipe for disaster. The Tories have a reputation for much better housekeeping and less public sector spending. Labour are now throwing money at the banks like there is no tomorrow. The Tories would never have cut VAT to 15% and wasted 12 Billion pounds.

2) Public sector pensions are out of control and this is also adversely affecting spending and borrowing

3) Brown split the regulator into FSA and the BofE so both sides did not know whose responsibility was what. This has been the cause of much of the bank sector problems by the failure of regulation.

4) Brown gave the BofE independence on rate control, which was great while we had a boom, but this caused a delay of about a year in cutting interest rates and thus again has contributed majorly to the current recession.

5) Immigration is out of control and thus unemployment will end up much higher than it would have. The Tories would not have allowed the Poles in seven years before we had to.

6) HIPS have adversely affected the housing market and would never have been invented under the Tories.


..... and I could add a lot more

[gingerjedi]

5 pages and no bite from Cybertory??

Is he banned?

[Doggy Styles]

Come on now, stop beating about the bush

The cretinous bit was only paraphrasing the original questioner.

But the essence is true...

[PM-Junkie]

He who ignores history is destined never to learn from it. All but the most hard of thinking, reflex, cretinous socialists in this country must accept after the best part of a century that the Labour party's incompetence with public money and fiscal policy knows no bounds, never has, and never will.

Come on now, stop beating about the bush