Reply to: PMs hit hard in current market?

[Liability]

I totally agree. Many contractors have lost all perspective of the value of money, and I must admit I went through a phase of taking it all for granted in 2000 when I turned down an extension that would have been grossing almost 12K a month.
Since Y2K my sense of perspective has become much more realistic and I have put much more money away for a rainy day, and not in shares I hasten to add. It's a shame that those in government didn't do the same thing, but my thrift means that I can survive this downturn for many years.
A long recession will be a reality check for many contractors, who will learn that thinking that they are the best in the business with top-notch skills will just not be enough, as the jobs will simply not be there. The best skills to have will be those in money management!!

this is very true - I think now more than ever 2009 is going to be very painful......

Hate to see the repurcussions for those verse to depression and all....not a good year coming up....lets just hope many get through it safe and sound.....

[Cyberman]

That's what I said - average wage - "tulip wage" was referring to lower than that - closer to minium salary - a lot of jobs in this country pay like £11-12k, which in my view qualifies as "tulip wage" but even that is lower than average and many times lower than that discussed.

My first IT work in this country was done for rate of £7 per hour... I was pretty chaffed to get even that at the time

I have a friend earning just over 12K a year and he is almost 50, but he survives. My first permanent job with a bank in 1973 paid 1500 pounds a year and my first take home pay was just under 50 quid a month. It puts today's pay into perspective !!

[Cyberman]

selfish shelfish

--

It is very dangerous for one to lose sense of perspective - £36 ph is a lot of money that most people won't have any chance of reaching during their lifetime (unless Brown stays in Govt for another term), this is especially so if there is a downturn and a lot of people lose their jobs.

Frankly any high rates during .COM boom of early 2000s were silly money and should have never been assumed as "normal" or something that would stay on for a long time.

I totally agree. Many contractors have lost all perspective of the value of money, and I must admit I went through a phase of taking it all for granted in 2000 when I turned down an extension that would have been grossing almost 12K a month.
Since Y2K my sense of perspective has become much more realistic and I have put much more money away for a rainy day, and not in shares I hasten to add. It's a shame that those in government didn't do the same thing, but my thrift means that I can survive this downturn for many years.
A long recession will be a reality check for many contractors, who will learn that thinking that they are the best in the business with top-notch skills will just not be enough, as the jobs will simply not be there. The best skills to have will be those in money management!!

[AtW]

24K is not a tulip wage. It's more or less the average wage.

That's what I said - average wage - "tulip wage" was referring to lower than that - closer to minium salary - a lot of jobs in this country pay like £11-12k, which in my view qualifies as "tulip wage" but even that is lower than average and many times lower than that discussed.

My first IT work in this country was done for rate of £7 per hour... I was pretty chaffed to get even that at the time

[Cyberman]

No.

What I am saying is that lots more people in this country have to live on real tulip wage (not always minimum but average salary I think was £24k pa) - this means someone who was on £75 during totally unjustified boom years of waste should not complain about going downt o £36 during downturn when many would earn 10 times less.

24K is not a tulip wage. It's more or less the average wage. The real problem is the way that all taxes, especially Council Tax(risen over 100% since 1997), National Insurance and Income Tax(a classic stealth tax, by not raising bands in line with inflation) have risen dramatically under Labour, thus reducing disposable income.
This is a contributory factor for the current recession. It's quite comical that the powers that be cite tax reductions as a potential cure for the recession, but don't realise that continually raising them has the opposite affect by reducing consumer spending power!!

[Iron Condor]

There is an advert on the home page of CUK. That offers 4x your rate for mortgages. I did use that company in 2001 but i took a mortage that was less than 1.5x my 75ph rate, (200K). I wonder if anyone on here on 600 a day ever took out a 600K mortgage???

[AtW]

I quit contracting to do plan B in 2007. This year i averaged about a £1000 a day on plan B. But i still only live like i earn 65K a year.

[AtW]

My lifestyle never got so crazy that 36ph (about 65K a year) wasnt enough to live on.
So droping down from 75ph to 36ph never bothered me, it was the six month period of being out work that was hard as i had bought my first home a week before being out of work.

I am glad that you got the right attitude to it.

[Liability]

I was back earning 50ph in 2006. So never got back to 75ph. Although if i had moved over to architecture or mangement instead of development i might i have got back to 75ph. But i spent the time focusing on plan B rather than maximizing my rate.

My lifestyle never got so crazy that 36ph (about 65K a year) wasnt enough to live on.
So droping down from 75ph to 36ph never bothered me, it was the six month period of being out work that was hard as i had bought my first home a week before being out of work. Even in the boom times, some companies used to try it on and offer 40ph. So when the bust hit i initially rejected that level of work..

I quit contracting to do plan B in 2007. This year i averaged about a £1000 a day on plan B. But i still only live like i earn 65K a year. Next year i might make zero or i might make double what i made this year. But if you live well within your means then these downturns cant really hurt you.

coll - what is your Plan B if you dont mind me asking?

[Iron Condor]

Crickey - what did it recover to say in 2007 [early] ?

I was back earning 50ph in 2006. So never got back to 75ph. Although if i had moved over to architecture or mangement instead of development i might i have got back to 75ph. But i spent the time focusing on plan B rather than maximizing my rate.

My lifestyle never got so crazy that 36ph (about 65K a year) wasnt enough to live on.
So droping down from 75ph to 36ph never bothered me, it was the six month period of being out work that was hard as i had bought my first home a week before being out of work. Even in the boom times, some companies used to try it on and offer 40ph. So when the bust hit i initially rejected that level of work..

I quit contracting to do plan B in 2007. This year i averaged about a £1000 a day on plan B. But i still only live like i earn 65K a year. Next year i might make zero or i might make double what i made this year. But if you live well within your means then these downturns cant really hurt you.

[AtW]

Though many millions of people have increased their lifestyle costs on credit, which has much the same outcome.

Maybe prohibition of charging interest under Sharia law actually makes sense.

[PAH]

I think the main problem with people who complain about very high rate dropping to still high rate is that those people increased their lifestyle costs to level that matched their temporary high rate assuming future rates will be the same or higher, WRONG!

It's an easy trap to fall into.

Though many millions of people have increased their lifestyle costs on credit, which has much the same outcome.

[cojak]

That's exactly right.

I think the main problem with people who complain about very high rate dropping to still high rate (when lots of people out of job or in real bad jobs - out on street in cold weather doing some rubbish stuff for minimum salary, rather than sitting in a nice warm office eating pot noodles and wracking up those posts on CUK) is that those people increased their lifestyle costs to level that matched their temporary high rate assuming future rates will be the same or higher, WRONG!

I'm not saying that I disagree with you (as one with no mortgage or HP debts to worry about).

I would take a lower rate if nothing else turned up after a couple of months.

For a little while....

[AtW]

As it is, instead of spunking all your money away when the times are good, build up the funds (or war chest as I think some refer it as), then having an enforced period on the bench is not such a big deal.

That's exactly right.

I think the main problem with people who complain about very high rate dropping to still high rate (when lots of people out of job or in real bad jobs - out on street in cold weather doing some rubbish stuff for minimum salary, rather than sitting in a nice warm office eating pot noodles and wracking up those posts on CUK) is that those people increased their lifestyle costs to level that matched their temporary high rate assuming future rates will be the same or higher, WRONG!

[PAH]

Frankly any high rates during .COM boom of early 2000s were silly money and should have never been assumed as "normal" or something that would stay on for a long time.

Same could be said with expecting to be off the bench in such a climate (or maybe that should be weather, eh nick ).

As it is, instead of spunking all your money away when the times are good, build up the funds (or war chest as I think some refer it as), then having an enforced period on the bench is not such a big deal.

Something I've learnt the hard way after spunking all my money away in the past!