Reply to: How bad does an outsource co have to be before UK co. gives up on them

[minestrone]

Jira is probably one of the poorer tools for managing software development. It is as slow as a week in the jail as well.

Anyway having used jira to manage an off shore team we found that they would try to create more work by raising pointless issues all day.


We used to find bugs like "I tried to change the page encoding on IE and the page never came out the same"

IT was almost getting to the stage of "I switched my machine off and the application stopped working"

[Purple Dalek]

I hate that f£cking Jira.

At one point at old ClientCo I spent more time on Jira than actual work.

Jira is good for you. Management know this because developers hate it so much.

[SantaClaus]

To manage offshore workers you need to have good issue tracking and logging
software, last IB used http://www.jira.com, which worked well as they can't ignore you as everything is tracked.
another good tactic is to use instant messenger to keep tabs on what there
working on otherwise they'll just start watching bollywood movies or worse
start posting on cuk!

I hate that f£cking Jira.

At one point at old ClientCo I spent more time on Jira than actual work.

[TheVoice]

Just get on and do the needful!

Those of you who have to suffer Accenture's nightmare will appreciate these:-

>CLICKY<
- or -
>CLICKY<
- or -
>CLICKY<

Cherry Mistmas!!

[ace00]

I'm working on a project that has been outsourced to them injuns

So far they have proved incapable of doing anything except ignore emails. The customer is pi***d off, but seem unwilling to bring it back onshore.

Probably went for the Apaches - got to watch them - try the Sioux next time, much better workers.

[Purple Dalek]

They never do but the managers claim the savings when the project is cancelled. And that happens quite often. This is the only case (a project that has been cancelled) where savings are actually achieved with outsourcing.

Nail on the head there.

Because most software projects are doomed to fail before they start, then if you're a clever management type person and aiming to try and minimise the loss then outsourcing the development to some team that can easily be shown to be failing way before the deadlines arrive is something of a dream situation.

My experience is many middle management types really are that cynical.

I've observed that if it really is something they want, they keep it in house.

[d000hg]

Has anyone ever seen an outsourced project to the third world actually come in on time, on budget and with a decent level of quality? The good old three sides of the triangle?

Seen about 4 projects and they have always been disasters but they must occasionally get the job done right.

I'm hiring one guy in India on a project and he's very good. Of course he studied for his degree in the US and from his email/IM you couldn't tell he was not a native English speaker.

Conclusion... there are very smart, capable Indians around at low prices but you'll be lucky to find them. Finding a pre-built team or using a company who will choose the team both sound bad ideas... I think you need to personally vet each person and that's not really how offshoring tends to work.

[Bright Spark]

I'm working on a project that has been outsourced to them injuns

So far they have proved incapable of doing anything except ignore emails. The customer is pi***d off, but seem unwilling to bring it back onshore.

At what point do UK corporations give up, or do they just keep throwing their money Eastwards?

Has anyone else experienced this?

To manage offshore workers you need to have good issue tracking and logging
software, last IB used http://www.jira.com, which worked well as they can't ignore you as everything is tracked.
another good tactic is to use instant messenger to keep tabs on what there
working on otherwise they'll just start watching bollywood movies or worse
start posting on cuk!

[minestrone]

In my last job we decided that the staff in India were just computer conversation generation applications. They would just go off on mad tangents talking complete crap on email.

When you think about it it makes complete sense, 5 developers work for a year building the thing which can emulate thousands of consultants.

And it would not have to be very good to be convincing, most of the real staff are useless anyway.

[PAH]

If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.
-- Red Adair

Quality.

Contender for the contractor's motto, if we ever have that competition.

[OrangeHopper]

I'm working on a project that has been outsourced to them injuns

So far they have proved incapable of doing anything except ignore emails. The customer is pi***d off, but seem unwilling to bring it back onshore.

At what point do UK corporations give up, or do they just keep throwing their money Eastwards?

Has anyone else experienced this?

I answer your emails. What more do you want?

Just get on and do the needful!

[Francko]

Has anyone ever seen an outsourced project to the third world actually come in on time, on budget and with a decent level of quality? The good old three sides of the triangle?

Seen about 4 projects and they have always been disasters but they must occasionally get the job done right.

They never do but the managers claim the savings when the project is cancelled. And that happens quite often. This is the only case (a project that has been cancelled) where savings are actually achieved with outsourcing.

[minestrone]

Has anyone ever seen an outsourced project to the third world actually come in on time, on budget and with a decent level of quality? The good old three sides of the triangle?

Seen about 4 projects and they have always been disasters but they must occasionally get the job done right.

[expat]

Takes a while! NHS Project, and all major banks have the same issue. When you have the abacus players telling the business that they are cheaper they fail to mention that the cost to supervise and handhold makes it MORE expensive.

If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.
-- Red Adair

[thunderlizard]

It took 258 years and a subcontinent-wide mutiny before the East India Company was nationalised. I'm sure that's the closest analogy.