Reply to: Big moon

[Doggy Styles]

yeah, its not easy, this 'being a dad' lark.

If I had told you I took a 4 year old lad into formby woods and made him see stars, you would have had even more to complain about

[Doggy Styles]

I agree. As do art and literature and music. How else can people develop empathy and the means to see and feel the world as another person might?

I'm all for that, but what jolly p1sses me off is the way subjects are changing.

My daughter loved learning history and could tell me all about Stalin, women's suffrage, the Vietnam War and all kinds. But the examiners didn't want to know what she'd learned. The exam papers asked her to explain and compare sources, what bias they had, etc., or asked her to compare Trotsky with a kangeroo's arse or some such nonsense. That didn't interest her much at that age. So she packed up history.

The ex-head of OFSTED (can't remember his name) was right when he said we aren't teaching young kids history anymore, we are teaching them how to be historians.

When they're young, kids should build up knowledge by learning facts and how to work out distinct answers, not waste time on the meta-subjects and woolly thinking. Plenty of time for that when they're older.

[DimPrawn]

I agree. As do art and literature and music. How else can people develop empathy and the means to see and feel the world as another person might?

Just teach them Excel and get them in some office somewhere as a Civil Servant.

[Mich the Tester]

It goes further - we have waged wars on the basis of furthering Democracy - but if our own people are not educated to appreciate or understand the origins or concept of Democracy - its all been a terrible waste of time.

So now they want to scrap History - it will teach us nothing.

And that - does in fact matter.

Lots.

I agree. As do art and literature and music. How else can people develop empathy and the means to see and feel the world as another person might?

[AlfredJPruffock]

It goes further - we have waged wars on the basis of furthering Democracy - but if our own people are not educated to appreciate or understand the origins or concept of Democracy - its all been a terrible waste of time.

So now they want to scrap History - it will teach us nothing.

And that - does in fact matter.

Lots.

[TimberWolf]

This is criminal. The Dept of Education have no blinking idea of what the job market of the future will require. Where would we be without space exploration, pure science and the interminable desire to find out what's out there? Right now, we know about the earth's climate thanks to space technology. We can transmit data around the world in seconds thanks to satellites. Who knows what we will do in the future? All I know is that if kids don't get the chance to learn about astronomy, we won't do much.

Copernicus and Galileo gave us the heliocentric model of the universe. Newton gave us the laws of motion. Einstein gave us the laws of relativity. What have our 'job market oriented' education systems given us? Bloody worthless credit-default-obligation-swap-derivative-tulipty-boring-thingummyjigs.

Isn't this giving schools a little too much credit for personal edification and nurturing one's interests? I think we learn little at school, and all the important stuff is done on one's own.

[Mich the Tester]

But if you mean a whole GCSE or A-level subject on it, I think the Department of Education are trying to phase out things that aren't job oriented. The classics have taken a battering, and I read recently that geography and history are to be 'downgraded'.

This is criminal. The Dept of Education have no blinking idea of what the job market of the future will require. Where would we be without space exploration, pure science and the interminable desire to find out what's out there? Right now, we know about the earth's climate thanks to space technology. We can transmit data around the world in seconds thanks to satellites. Who knows what we will do in the future? All I know is that if kids don't get the chance to learn about astronomy, we won't do much.

Copernicus and Galileo gave us the heliocentric model of the universe. Newton gave us the laws of motion. Einstein gave us the laws of relativity. What have our 'job market oriented' education systems given us? Bloody worthless credit-default-obligation-swap-derivative-tulipty-boring-thingummyjigs.

[BrilloPad]

I think the plan is to teach such things after the 16 yr olds can count to ten and read a line from a Janet and John book.

They should get an A level at 16?

[EternalOptimist]

I can't help thinking that, if my dad had done that to me, whenever l walked along in the dark in future I'd believe there could be people lurking in the bushes watching me...

yeah, its not easy, this 'being a dad' lark.

If I had told you I took a 4 year old lad into formby woods and made him see stars, you would have had even more to complain about

[Doggy Styles]

Thats funny - when I was again about seven I smuggled in a wee astronomy book - The Observers Guide to the Stars as I recall to school - anyway I was caught reading this and was sent to the headmasters office to explain myself.

Fearing the worse - the Headmaster looked at my wee book - then he said 'tell me what you know about the Solar System.'

I sat back and delivered a huge amount of astromical data - named every one of the planets , how long its takes each planet to revolve around the Sun, how many moons etc - at then end the Headmaster asked me to visit three classes and give a lecture on Astronomy.

Which I did , with chalk and balckboard and gave about 30 mins of a lecture to three classes - boy did I enjoy that.

Lookgin back it was a great thing he did - the teacher who sent me to his study I think thought I should have been punished somehow - but the Headmaster had far more wisdom.

Well I was awaiting my fate I noticed a wee motto outside his study

To Educate - is not to fill a cup - but to light a Candle.

I never forgot that.

Finally - why isnt Astronomy taught at schools ?

A good headmaster - do they veer off the OFSTED line like that any more?

Some schools teach the basics as part of science/physics. My kids are still teenagers and they did it.

But if you mean a whole GCSE or A-level subject on it, I think the Department of Education are trying to phase out things that aren't job oriented. The classics have taken a battering, and I read recently that geography and history are to be 'downgraded'.

Having said that, I think A-level Astronomy is still at option at college.

[Mich the Tester]

Finally - why isnt Astronomy taught at schools ?

Firstly, because it's difficult, and secondly because modern education is set up to serve the purely economic interests of the 'job market' instead of building on the natural curiosity of kids. All through school kids are pressed to pass exams and get to the right college to study international business marketing or some other inane 'degree' otherwise they're seen as failures.

I was the kid that sat in physics lessons asking 'how do satellites stay in orbit' only to be told that it isn't in the syllabus so I shouldn't bother with it. Bloody silly bus in my opinion.

Instead of preparing Homo Sapiens for a life of exploring and learning, kids are being prepared for a more depressing life of servitude as Homo Economicus.

I had a brilliant maths and sciences teacher until I was about 13; after that I was so bored by the bleeding 'syllabus' and completely uninspired teaching that I almost ended up doing a meaningless management degree too. Only at university did I return to geography and enjoy some of it, and as an adult I rediscovered the love of science that I had lost and started studying geology. I'm aiming for my MSc within the next couple of years and then to go on to PhD and work in volcanology research.

[DimPrawn]

Finally - why isnt Astronomy taught at schools ?

I think the plan is to teach such things after the 16 yr olds can count to ten and read a line from a Janet and John book.

[EternalOptimist]

Finally - why isnt Astronomy taught at schools ?

It was in my school, but it wasn't on the curriculum.
Our maths teacher was tremendously interested and the boys would ask him questions to get him off maths and onto astronomy.

I used to look forward to his lessons

[AlfredJPruffock]

I have a similar tale Alf, my dad bought me two books when I was eight. Off my own bat I disappeared into the school library for an hour every day for a week or a month, I can't remember, and did a project on the solar system, including drawing of all the planets and the moon. It wasn't part of any syllabus at the time, but to their credit the teachers let me carry on and gave me lots of brownie points at the end.

Thats funny - when I was again about seven I smuggled in a wee astronomy book - The Observers Guide to the Stars'' as I recall to school - anyway I was caught reading this and was sent to the headmasters office to explain myself.

Fearing the worse - the Headmaster looked at my wee book - then he said 'tell me what you know about the Solar System.'

I sat back and delivered a huge amount of astromical data - named every one of the planets , how long its takes each planet to revolve around the Sun, how many moons etc - at then end the Headmaster asked me to visit three classes and give a lecture on Astronomy.

Which I did , with chalk and balckboard and gave about 30 mins of a lecture to three classes - boy did I enjoy that.

Looking back it was a great thing he did - the teacher who sent me to his study I think thought I should have been punished somehow - but the Headmaster had far more wisdom.

Well as I was awaiting my fate I noticed a wee motto outside his study

To Educate - is not to fill a cup - but to light a Candle.

I never forgot that.

Finally - why isnt Astronomy taught at schools ?

[Doggy Styles]

I was teaching him that the reason for being afraid of the dark, that the bogeyman is creeping up on you, that you have to fear what you cant see, is baseless. If you sit still and keep your gob shut you are perfectly safe.
In fact safer, because we could hear those guys moving around from miles away

I can't help thinking that, if my dad had done that to me, whenever l walked along in the dark in future I'd believe there could be people lurking in the bushes watching me...