Reply to: estimated investors' losses at about $50 billion

[AtW]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ged-fraud.html

"Spain's Banco Santander, which owns Abbey and Alliance and Leicester, said its hedge fund unit invested €2.33bn (£2bn) of client funds with Bernard Madoff."

Actually this article shows it a bit in different light - I certainly don't approve of banks running hedge funds using clients money...

[AtW]

Not you mate, you converted your money from imaginary euros too early...

I give you some credit for selling your imaginary villa though

[AtW]

So you'd be happy to use a bank that advised its customers to invest in a Ponzi scheme?

Show me link saying that it was the bank who advised them to invest? I doubt you will find it, until then your claim is baseless speculation.

My guess is that rich idiots who used the right bank were taken for a ride by 3rd party, in small part the bank itself (17 mln euros) also lost out, however it's a very small loss compared to even RBS, so my original point stands.

[DimPrawn]

There are a few on this forum.

[AtW]

you really have to question whether there are any financial experts out there.

There are a few on this forum.

[DiscoStu]

So you'd be happy to use a bank that advised its customers to invest in a Ponzi scheme?

[swamp]

If the world's top investors get caught out by a dodgy pyramid scheme you really have to question whether there are any financial experts out there. I reckon they're all a bunch of chancers.

[AtW]

Oops, wrong link...

Try here

Oh where are you now?

Searching frantically for a new link?

[AtW]

Oops, wrong link...

Try here

"Santander customers have $3.1 billion exposure to Madoff"

This means customers of Santander (the bank) have the exposure, not (necesserily) Santander (the bank) itself. Who taught you English language? I don't ask who taught you logic because clearly it was nobody

"The Santander group has a proprietary exposure of 17 million euros through another investment fund."

So whole of Santander group (via 3rd party) only exposed to 17 mln euros, not a high number considering RBS was done for £400 mln - this only confirms my original view that Santander is a very good conservative bank, in this huge scam they got low exposure though their customers might have been pretty stupid, but that's not banks fault (unless they advised customers to invest there).

[DiscoStu]

Oops, wrong link...

Try here

[AtW]

Certainly

The only sentence mentioning that spanish bank is: "Spanish newspapers said the leading bank Santander had invested with Mr Madoff." - where did you get $3 bln from? It would sound to be as rather too high amount.

RBS info - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ged-fraud.html

I would not be suprised if Santander lost 400-500, but $3 bln would seem excessive and should have never passed risk controls.

[DiscoStu]

Linky maybe?

If they did so then they would certainly be retarted.

RBS appears to have lost £400 mln (just heard it on BBC)

Certainly

[AtW]

And guess who had $3.1bn invested in this Ponzi scheme... Santander.

Linky maybe?

If they did so then they would certainly be retarted.

RBS appears to have lost £400 mln (just heard it on BBC)

[Purple Dalek]

paying themselves large bonusses

It’s just more evidence of the endemic incompetence at senior levels in the banking industry. I don’t have the solution but it seems to me that there needs to be a massive management clear-out among the banks as the people who’ve been running them up to now clearly aren’t morally or intellectually equipped for the responsibility of looking after other people’s money.

Agree with that. I've seen many a good quality engineering firm, just nicely ticking along, making a good, but not spectacular profit each year, get a few MBAs on board, a few years of spectacular growth followed by a stunning collapse.

I take it as an anti-pattern: watch the company reports, the 'pictures of the board' section, the company has kindly looking elder engineers on the board, you notice they're gradually replaced by some gelled haired MBA freaks, this implies a company that will make good money until the last kindly elderly type is gone, then sell, 'cause they'll fail soon.

[DiscoStu]

People who invested into his ponzi scheme deserved to lost the money - anybody with a decent amount of money should be asking hard questions exactly how high interest (which I have no doubts he paid to attract people) is achieved.

I reckon that guy speculated on commodities (and shares most likely) and now that the trend reversed he could not cover withdrawals, this sort of tulip happens all the time during turbulent times like now because scams like this stop generating easy money and inflows of new cash is not enough.

A few quotes from this thread.

They are clearly running bank on the basis of long term thinking - not suprising given it is a family bank so they are conservative as every bank should be.

I think I might open bank account in that spanish bank

The big irony is that this Spanish bank seemed to have avoided the temptation to play Spanish morgages game leaving this for the mug banks in Britain and other places

And guess who had $3.1bn invested in this Ponzi scheme... Santander.

Oh dear, maybe we should change your title from Lord Of Squirrels to Often Wrong