Originally posted by rootsnall
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Reply to: contracting in great depression II
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Previously on "contracting in great depression II"
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How are defining a code monkey? Is it anyone who just does programming? Or someone who only does simple, repetitive tasks?
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C++
C++ has got to be the most tulip language of all time and the amount of very tulip systems needing constant patching is never ending. It nearly killed me last time I went back to C++ but I'll do it again if things get really dire.
stay with visual basic and java for the time being
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostBut the original great depression of 1870 was renamed the long depression when the great depression came along.
Will we rename the great depression or find a new name for this one?
The BBC have been calling it "the downturn". I think Alistair Campbell told them to.
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostWill we rename the great depression or find a new name for this one?
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostI'm afraid that joke is so old it's expired and starting to smell. Still worth a chuckle though.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostWould such products be 'testees'?
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostIn practise you often stop when the bolshy git of a project manager can con the users into accepting the product, however tulip it is.
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostIn practise you often stop when the bolshy git of a project manager can con the users into accepting the product, however tulip it is. The trouble with statistical approaches is that you have to know precisely what units make up the statistics. A 'bug', loosely classified as 'showstopper, blocking, serious, minor, cosmetic' or something like that is actually difficult to quantify in a consisten manner, and even when you quantify it in terms of financial impact you might find that doing the impact analysis is more expensive and time consuming that just solving it or living with it. Same goes for test case based statistics; a test case can range from 'click with the left mouse button on field x; the cursor should be active in field x' to 'run batch y and compare output to last month's batch y; any differences should be explainable'. That means that statistics like 'there are 50 findings for every 1000 test cases' are often meaningless.
Really it's about assessing risk and agreeing among a group of users, admins, builders and testers that it's a responsible risk to take the product into production or ship it to the client.
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"You can prove bugs exist, you cannot prove they don't exist"
Just a little something I like to say now and again.
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Originally posted by TimberWolf View PostThere's a lot of science in testing and unfortunately a lot of it is carp and I've forgotten much of it. At what stage do you stop testing? e.g. when you don't find a bug at all for x amount of time, or when you only find x number of bugs in a certain amount of time? With huge software products I expect the latter approach is more common, and a certain amount of bugs are assumed and almost mathematically certain to exist.
Really it's about assessing risk and agreeing among a group of users, admins, builders and testers that it's a responsible risk to take the product into production or ship it to the client. One way is to organise testing into exploratory sessions, where an experienced tester and an experienced user work together according to a charter describiing what areas of the product they're going to test, what kind of critical behaviour they'll be observing and how long they're going to work. You can then look at the progress through several rounds of test sessions to see how many bugs you find per session or per hour; when this number has fallen significantly and starts to flatten out or shows no more serious findings, you can agree to move on. Imprecise, but experience suggests it can be very effective. Again however, you can ask 'how experienced is the tester/user, is the tester 'on form' today, have they become jaded from repeated the same thing again and again'. But this is what makes a profession; it involves judgment calls based on knowledge AND experience.Last edited by Mich the Tester; 5 December 2008, 10:59.
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostOf course. Until then, I'll keep on invoicing.
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Originally posted by Doggy Styles View PostThat perfect code would be written to a perfect spec, written to a perfect analysis of a perfect requirement.
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Originally posted by Mich the Tester View PostYou guys have one means of putting me out of work for good. Write perfect code and run it through a perfect compiler to work on a perfect OS.
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Originally posted by bobhope View PostAhh Quality Center, now there's a product. If only it could go more than a couple of hours without crashing the browser.
Amazingly, in all the testing courses, we're told that testers should have good communication skills to avoid making a developer feel personally attacked by a finding, but the methodologies and tools used by large organisations seem designed to prevent that kind of cooperative working.
In short; let me talk with the developer and show him what's going on, and that way we can work together for a better product. When we've agreed that there's an issue we can put it in QC so that the managers can have their meaningless reports.
Sorry guys, I could go on about this for months, but I'll save you it. Just wait until my first testing courses go on the market. Alternatively, hire me and I'll tell you how tsting really should be done. I'm not cheap, but as Red Adair says, 'if you think hiring a professional is expensive, see what it costs when you hire an amateur'.
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