Reply to: Permie role offered, how much should I ask for?

[w3bdEw]

Hmm... The more you talk about the role the less junior it sounds. Don't sell yourself short and end up feeling overworked and underpaid. And take note of the massive drop in Net pay to PAYE.

It is project lead most of time and team some time, but good thing is that it is not 'code monkey' which I would hate. Overworked and Underpaid, you guys are giving me very good ideas and words for negotiation.

I am comparing net figures when thinking about it all.

Many Thanks

[realityhack]

Hmm... The more you talk about the role the less junior it sounds. Don't sell yourself short and end up feeling overworked and underpaid. And take note of the massive drop in Net pay to PAYE.

[jim2406]

That sounds like a good environment to work in.

[w3bdEw]

If you're going perm don't just be motivated by money, try to get some assurances from their end as to where the job will lead IMO.

You don't want to take 35k and become a code monkey doing the same thing every day for the next 3 years. I've seen it happen to people and now they'll struggle to get a job elsewhere. Better to get assurance that you will be trained in a team lead role, etc... try to get timescales on when things will happen too, rather than just a fluffy 'yeah we'll do that next year'...

as for money..

is it a .NET job or a LAMP job? (or both)

the going rate differs for each. .NET people generally get paid more.

I am only questioning about money as I am happy with other pros.
The role is based on projects, I have a LAMP project at the moment as a lead. I did C# in a team a month ago. So this is LAMP or .NET role (one at a time). This is exactly what I need, challenging lead role in different languages and interesting projects. Very good opportunity of growth.

Clientco is a direct key supplier to Gov as well as being part of big "in profit" group. So job security is not an issue (pension thrown in etc). Training is currently on very low but allowed where necessary, so it would not be hard to get one if I step up to take responsibility of a big project.

[AZZIK]

Amazing how easy it is for people in IT to get pigeon-holed.

WHS

[w3bdEw]

£27/hr would only work ...

Personally speaking if I were in your position ...

Thanks for your input, much appreciated. I agree with your points chris79.

Never, ever, ever start a negotiation ...

Absolutely - and principled negotiation, never positional bargaining, is the way forward.

Good advice on negotiation, Moscow Mule and realityhack, Thanks

BTW - clientco hire ppl fitting your description (Junior LAMP dev) for about £40-45k permie (London rates so deduct 'weighting' of around 3.5k).

I'd estimate the London adjustment might be closer to 20% or 25%. For someone only working a couple of years as a standard developer, £30-35K sounds pretty reasnable outside the south-east.

Trouble is I am outside of "outside of London"
28-35 is the usual permie roles available.

I am thinking about taking Moscow Mule's advice on negotiating.

[BrilloPad]

If you're going perm don't just be motivated by money, try to get some assurances from their end as to where the job will lead IMO.

You don't want to take 35k and become a code monkey doing the same thing every day for the next 3 years. I've seen it happen to people and now they'll struggle to get a job elsewhere. Better to get assurance that you will be trained in a team lead role, etc... try to get timescales on when things will happen too, rather than just a fluffy 'yeah we'll do that next year'...

as for money..

is it a .NET job or a LAMP job? (or both)

the going rate differs for each. .NET people generally get paid more.

Amazing how easy it is for people in IT to get pigeon-holed.

[jim2406]

If you're going perm don't just be motivated by money, try to get some assurances from their end as to where the job will lead IMO.

You don't want to take 35k and become a code monkey doing the same thing every day for the next 3 years. I've seen it happen to people and now they'll struggle to get a job elsewhere. Better to get assurance that you will be trained in a team lead role, etc... try to get timescales on when things will happen too, rather than just a fluffy 'yeah we'll do that next year'...

as for money..

is it a .NET job or a LAMP job? (or both)

the going rate differs for each. .NET people generally get paid more.

[d000hg]

I'd estimate the London adjustment might be closer to 20% or 25%. For someone only working a couple of years as a standard developer, £30-35K sounds pretty reasnable outside the south-east.

[realityhack]

Never, ever, ever start a negotiation with what you think you'll end up with.

Start at £35k. Pick a number you'll be happy with and be prepared to be knocked down...

Absolutely - and principled negotiation, never positional bargaining, is the way forward.

BTW - clientco hire ppl fitting your description (Junior LAMP dev) for about £40-45k permie (London rates so deduct 'weighting' of around 3.5k).

[Moscow Mule]

Never, ever, ever start a negotiation with what you think you'll end up with.

Start at £35k. Pick a number you'll be happy with and be prepared to be knocked down...

[chris79]

Personally speaking if I were in your position I would take the work and not rock the boat unless you have 'other options'. Is it really worth the risk of losing the chance given the current state of affairs if it's the only option available to you right now? Ok you can earn a bit more but would it mean having to travel further, stay away, etc?

Take the job, collect the money, then make up for it when times are good. If anything it's further stuff on your CV for the near future.

[d000hg]

£27/hr would only work out at just over £50K/year. So trying to get more than £30K full-time sounds disproportionate to me.
Sounds like £27K is about the minimum that would make sense so you could ask for £32-33K as being 20% above this. Or you could say £35K and be open to negotiate quickly if they appear shocked.

[w3bdEw]

Just be aware that as a permie you will be tied into a set notice period and as such you may not be able to take advantage of contracts as they come up.

Also, you may have to have to start jumping through all those permie hoops such as performance reviews and such just to keep your job.

On the upside though you can take advantage on any training and a pension (although it will be worth f*** all when you need it.

Good luck.

Good points, Cheers.
This contract waited for my 1 month notice at last place, so hoping for the best.

[Svalbaard]

Just be aware that as a permie you will be tied into a set notice period and as such you may not be able to take advantage of contracts as they come up.

Also, you may have to have to start jumping through all those permie hoops such as performance reviews and such just to keep your job.

On the upside though you can take advantage on any training and a pension (although it will be worth f*** all when you need it.

Good luck.