Reply to: Iceland now

[Bob Dalek]

Don't they speak English?

Yes - but it sounds like a porn film.

[Mich the Tester]

Don't they speak English?

Who? Johnny Foreigner? Some of them, yes, but if you want to make money out of them it's best to speak Johnny Foreignese.

[TimberWolf]

My girlfriend is Dutch and we always speak Dutch at home. I spoke very little Dutch when I came here, and spent the first couple of years working on building sites where most people only spoke a little English. I never took classes; didn't need to.

You really should join a club for your interests where local people go; don't just join the expats rugby club, but get involved in something local. Also, if you get out into the countryside you'll find that people don't speak English as readily so you'll be forced to learn. Perhaps look for an evening job in a pub; you'll increase you income a little and it helps to learn the language.

Watch the news in your chosen language and read a good quality daily newspaper; that way you'll learn to use the language correctly.

Try to avoid just translating words for yourself. Don't ask people what an English something is called in Dutch/French, but try to describe it in French or Dutch, or even draw or show a picture of what you want, so that you can recall the word the same way as you recall an English word, and you actually start thinking in your second language. Don't worry if people think you're a fool or take the piss out of your language skills; they're usually the ones who have never taken the trouble to learn another language. Good luck!

Don't they speak English?

[Mich the Tester]

Mich,

Genuine question, how did you learn Dutch ? Was it before your employment or during ? I ask because I'm in Belgium and struggling to pick up either French or Dutch as everyone in the office (and shops/bars etc) just drops into good English as soon as you speak.

I have signed up for some night courses but think this will be the more conversational type stuff which would be good for ordering food/drinks but not for an office environment.

Thanks,

My girlfriend is Dutch and we always speak Dutch at home. I spoke very little Dutch when I came here, and spent the first couple of years working on building sites where most people only spoke a little English. I never took classes; didn't need to.

You really should join a club for your interests where local people go; don't just join the expats rugby club, but get involved in something local. Also, if you get out into the countryside you'll find that people don't speak English as readily so you'll be forced to learn. Perhaps look for an evening job in a pub; you'll increase you income a little and it helps to learn the language.

Watch the news in your chosen language and read a good quality daily newspaper; that way you'll learn to use the language correctly.

Try to avoid just translating words for yourself. Don't ask people what an English something is called in Dutch/French, but try to describe it in French or Dutch, or even draw or show a picture of what you want, so that you can recall the word the same way as you recall an English word, and you actually start thinking in your second language. Don't worry if people think you're a fool or take the piss out of your language skills; they're usually the ones who have never taken the trouble to learn another language. Good luck!

[BlasterBates]

actually you'll find the night school excellent, because everyone is usually a foreigner and so you'll probably all speak Dutch together. Within 6 months You'll find people will start talking to you in Dutch. At the moment your accent will be so terrible no-one can be bothered to speak dreadful Dutch with you.

[Unicorn]

How did you learn the lingo ?

Mich,

Genuine question, how did you learn Dutch ? Was it before your employment or during ? I ask because I'm in Belgium and struggling to pick up either French or Dutch as everyone in the office (and shops/bars etc) just drops into good English as soon as you speak.

I have signed up for some night courses but think this will be the more conversational type stuff which would be good for ordering food/drinks but not for an office environment.

Thanks,

[Mich the Tester]

I'd be happy to work there, but every advert I've ever seen for a contract stipulates "only fluent Dutch speakers need apply", which is a diplomatic way of saying "no foreigners".

ISTR we discussed this a year or two ago, and people who had contracted in Holland were pretty much agreed that native Dutch people actually hate foreigners who can speak Dutch! Don't recall why though.

I speak Dutch and I certainly notice some of this; I think a lot of people are disappointed when their prejudices are shown up to be false. They're a bit shocked when an Englishman (of course, the English don't speak any other languages etc etc) speaks their language as well as they do (better in many cases) and has a decent education. It sort of deflates them; many Dutch people believe they're the best in the world at everything and everyone else is a bit backward. On the other hand, if Dutch people think they can use your skills to make money, they're quite capable of pretending to like you.

I just send them invoices and as long as they pay, they don't get to hear what I really think about them.

[gingerjedi]

I must admit one thing puzzles me when I hear statements like "X's economy will shrink 0.5 percent next year" quoted as if the end of the world is nigh.

Seeing as most economies have been growing like topsy at 3% compounded for several years, a slight contraction would on the face of it only put them back where they were a few months ago, which doesn't seem that serious a setback.

I suppose there is the deflationary spiral aspect to consider though, in that once an economy starts contracting the process tends to snowball.

There was something in the news about the supermarkets only having growth of 2% this year instead of 4% last year, surely there is a limit on how much people can eat or are we expected to follow our yank cousins and eat our way into profit?

[Turion]

Yes, but try telling the locals

Go to any big Dutch city. Most of the locals are migrants.

[OwlHoot]

I'd be happy to work there, but every advert I've ever seen for a contract stipulates "only fluent Dutch speakers need apply", which is a diplomatic way of saying "no foreigners".

ISTR we discussed this a year or two ago, and people who had contracted in Holland were pretty much agreed that native Dutch people actually hate foreigners who can speak Dutch! Don't recall why though.

[Mich the Tester]

You need more immigrants then. Works for us.

Yes, but try telling the locals

[_V_]

You have a good point. Here in the Netherlands, as in much of Europe, we have an ageing population, a shrinking workforce, and huge skill shortages; .

You need more immigrants then. Works for us.

[Mich the Tester]

I must admit one thing puzzles me when I hear statements like "X's economy will shrink 0.5 percent next year" quoted as if the end of the world is nigh.

Seeing as most economies have been growing like topsy at 3% compounded for several years, a slight contraction would on the face of it only put them back where they were a few months ago, which doesn't seem that serious a setback.

I suppose there is the deflationary spiral aspect to consider though, in that once an economy starts contracting the process tends to snowball.

You have a good point. Here in the Netherlands, as in much of Europe, we have an ageing population, a shrinking workforce, and huge skill shortages; if the economy achieves zero growth, then average standard of living will actually rise for those in employment, especially seeing as taxes are falling. Of course, the growth, or lack of it, isn’t so equally distributed (and I’m not suggesting it should be), but it seems to me that we’ve become used to unrealistic expectations; our mature economies can’t grow at 3 or 4% per year without doing something seriously unsustainable, like building a mountain of debt or fooking our own living environment. If our economies grow at about 1% each year, that’s more than enough to provide a good life for all of us. We get ourselves into this mess time and time again by wanting to much too quickly.

[OwlHoot]

I must admit one thing puzzles me when I hear statements like "X's economy will shrink 0.5 percent next year" quoted as if the end of the world is nigh.

Seeing as most economies have been growing like topsy at 3% compounded for several years, a slight contraction would on the face of it only put them back where they were a few months ago, which doesn't seem that serious a setback.

I suppose there is the deflationary spiral aspect to consider though, in that once an economy starts contracting the process tends to snowball.

[Bagpuss]

I'd have thought Iceland would be very busy this time of year. Cheapo party bites and frozen roasties mmmmmmmmmmmmm