Reply to: "I've never had a job"

[minestrone]

Relative poverty as it is known.

If Britain was filled with only millionaires there would still be people in poverty using the scale.

[gingerjedi]

I'd call that real poverty, as opposed to the Blair style poverty where you don't have a tumble dryer...

Exactly

You can’t solve poverty in this country, as it’s just a measure between the rich and poor the only way the figures will stack up is if we have less rich people… ah I see now… well done Gordon, keep up the good work.

I can’t think of anywhere in the world where a country of a sizable population doesn’t have the exact same problem apart from Japan maybe? But that’s probably because we just don’t here about it.

As long as people are free to make more money than other people you will have differing standards of living, always have had and always will. It’s about time we learnt to accept it rather than trying to solve the issue.

[Mich the Tester]

"I've never had a job"

Nor me. Jobs tend to be blighted, remain uncomplaining, but then eventually get the hump and lament their woes. Not too keen on their scraping of sores with pot sherds, either.

I stopped looking for work the moment I found a job.

[Bob Dalek]

"I've never had a job"

Nor me. Jobs tend to be blighted, remain uncomplaining, but then eventually get the hump and lament their woes. Not too keen on their scraping of sores with pot sherds, either.

[TimberWolf]

So how poor do you want stupid people to be ?

A great question. And one which different societies answer in different ways.

[Mich the Tester]

in the interview she says her parents worked until they couldn't through redundancy and ill health

Redundancy is indeed a big killer of motivation and does a lot more economic damage than is ever accounted for. It kills people’s desire to work hard and achieve. It makes people feel that their fate is not in their own hands, but in the hands of some faceless technocrat who doesn’t give a tulip about them. It gives people's kids the impression that there's no point in trying hard as you'll be dumped on the sidelines anyway. It’s also far too quickly used as a short term remedy by senior executives faced with a changing business environment and lacking the skills to make use of their staff in an enterprising way.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I think the big concern is that the woman's family probably would have been quite hard working at one point and in a couple of generations they are now totally state dependant. Once you lose it its very hard to get back.

in the interview she says her parents worked until they couldn't through redundancy and ill health

[Mich the Tester]

Oh please, don't be retarded.

Supporting those who can't is the right way for society to function. Supporting those who won't is not. Just don't tell me someone is in poverty because some number crunching says they don't have something over 50% of the population have, such as a tumble dryer.

So how poor do you want stupid people to be ?

Of course a tumble dryer isn’t a measure of poverty. Neither is a colour TV. However, a roof over your head, food and clean water are essential for life. People with nothing to eat don’t suddenly mutate into great inventors or brilliant entrepreneurs. They steal food, steal other stuff to pay for the drugs and alcohol they use to comfort themselves, they lynch anyone who has a banana, they set fire to anything that will burn and if they get enough of them together under some loon posing as a leader they invade other people’s territory and slaughter them en masse. Controlling all that costs a lot more than just giving the fools a simple place to live and enough oven chips and special brew to maintain their obesity.

[ratewhore]

So you would like to see the unemployable starved to death, with all the disease and violence that that would bring with it? Come on, it costs almost bugger all to provide a 16 year old single mother with a roof, basic sanitation and food, when you compare it to the amount of money that’s wasted on ID databases, internet tracking databases and bureaucratic nonsense. The real waste of your taxes is in government bureaucracy. The consequences of leaving hopeless people to their own devices would be much worse and more expensive than just accepting that some people, sometimes through their own fault, aren’t equipped to look after themselves and the only thing we can do is try and improve matters for their offspring.

Oh please, don't be retarded.

Supporting those who can't is the right way for society to function. Supporting those who won't is not. Just don't tell me someone is in poverty because some number crunching says they don't have something over 50% of the population have, such as a tumble dryer.

[sunnysan]

No worries

Actually you got me there. I read the original post as Philippines, not Philadelphia. Had NFI what you were on about till I went back and re-read it.

Well, to be honest your mistaken assertions have actually raised a more interesting argument re US vs UK

[Mich the Tester]

I'd call that real poverty, as opposed to the Blair style poverty where you don't have a tumble dryer...

So you would like to see the unemployable starved to death, with all the disease and violence that that would bring with it? Come on, it costs almost bugger all to provide a 16 year old single mother with a roof, basic sanitation and food, when you compare it to the amount of money that’s wasted on ID databases, internet tracking databases and bureaucratic nonsense. The real waste of your taxes is in government bureaucracy. The consequences of leaving hopeless people to their own devices would be much worse and more expensive than just accepting that some people, sometimes through their own fault, aren’t equipped to look after themselves and the only thing we can do is try and improve matters for their offspring.

[sunnysan]

So

I've seen 3rd world poverty and I've seen US poverty; while it's possible to exaggerate, there are parts of the US which I'd classify as 3rd world. OK, so I'm not talking Ethiopian style starvation, but how bad do you think it should be? Parts of US cities like Detroit and Philladelphia simply aren't any longer a part of the 1st world. The rates of literacy, life expectancy among men, violence and almost inescapable poverty in those places are not much different to Lagos or Calcutta. Peopl are just a bit fatter.

So would most here agree, that the amount of money spent on keeping people like the lot mentioned in article "out of poverty" is money well spent?

Do the board feel that it is the better of two evils?

[snaw]

America is not a third world country. My point is that how much benefit is derived from the system as it stands now. IE How much better off are the worst off here than in the US.

Granted I have not seen American poverty up close, so I admit I may have overestimated the conditions there, but from my vantage point it doesnt look that much worse than the worst off here.

I have also had enough exposure to 3rd world poverty to realise that abject destitution, starvation, lack of medical and sanitary facilities is a different issue to what is being discussed here.

I, like you have NFI what the solution is.

Actually you got me there. I read the original post as Philippines, not Philadelphia. Had NFI what you were on about till I went back and re-read it.

[minestrone]

I think the big concern is that the woman's family probably would have been quite hard working at one point and in a couple of generations they are now totally state dependant. Once you lose it it’s very hard to get back.

[ratewhore]

I have also had enough exposure to 3rd world poverty to realise that abject destitution, starvation, lack of medical and sanitary facilities is a different issue to what is being discussed here.

I'd call that real poverty, as opposed to the Blair style poverty where you don't have a tumble dryer...