Reply to: Bring back Maggie

[DodgyAgent]

Strangely enough I find myself agreeing with DA in this and subsequent posts in the thread! Who'ld have thought?!

Just goes to show musty how honest we can be

[Mustang]

What Maggie did was expose the myth that socialism was a well meaning benign ideology. She showed that even the working classes were quite capable of owning property, getting a job other than working in the local pit, and that people did not need the state after all.

Strangely enough I find myself agreeing with DA in this and subsequent posts in the thread! Who'ld have thought?!

[TimberWolf]

DA would you agree that the unregulated free market is to blame for the mess we're now in? My take is that the Conservatives were successful in turning the country around, but that the mantra of monetarism and free market ideology over-rode common sense. That is always the case when a group of people think they have found the "truth" whether it's right or left-wingers.
History tells us that reality in economics is always somewhere in between.
I would also argue that in an age of globalism (which wasn't around when Thatcher was in power) the free market can work against the interests of a country. To what extent we are only just beginning to find out.

WHS

[DodgyAgent]

DA would you agree that the unregulated free market is to blame for the mess we're now in? My take is that the Conservatives were successful in turning the country around, but that the mantra of monetarism and free market ideology over-rode common sense. That is always the case when a group of people think they have found the "truth" whether it's right or left-wingers.
History tells us that reality in economics is always somewhere in between.
I would also argue that in an age of globalism (which wasn't around when Thatcher was in power) the free market can work against the interests of a country. To what extent we are only just beginning to find out.

like a firearm, the gun may be fit for purpose but its whoever is holding it that we must worry about.

[BlasterBates]

In the early 90's I thought the UK had it wrong and Germany had it right, by 2000 when Germany had 5 million unemployed I'd switched my opinion.

But now I hear the US is heading for an unemployment rate higher than Germany ever had (15% on CNN), and Germany unemployment is heading down, though it may temporarily rise. I reckon the UK unemployment will be bad as well, over 10%.

It looks the tables have turned yet again.

Who's right?

[Bagpuss]

Agreed. However some people who are rabid anti-Thatcherites will disagree.

So let's appease them.

Let's pretend Maggie acquiesced to the Unions and gave them what they wanted.

What would have happened ?

Massive increase in taxes to pay for their parasitic demands as they continued to bleed the country dry.

However, we keep nationalised industries going for another 10-15 years.

Then, quite independently from the UK, the Taiwanese / Chinese Industrialization blossoms, the US and most of Europe off-shore their production, leaving GB with state-funded companies that are bankrupted by colossal labour costs selling expensive goods.

In other words, Thatcher was damned if she did, and damned if she didn't.

You want a culprit ?

Globalisation.

Who is responsible for globalisation ?

We all are.

Nationalised industries never work do they? Applause for smashing the manufacturing base. Nationalised car manufacturers ha, could never work, people would never buy the product, it couldn't last!

Just looking out to the car park, >50% of the cars are French, can't run a train service either!

[sasguru]

DA would you agree that the unregulated free market is to blame for the mess we're now in? My take is that the Conservatives were successful in turning the country around, but that the mantra of monetarism and free market ideology over-rode common sense. That is always the case when a group of people think they have found the "truth" whether it's right or left-wingers.
History tells us that reality in economics is always somewhere in between.
I would also argue that in an age of globalism (which wasn't around when Thatcher was in power) the free market can work against the interests of a country. To what extent we are only just beginning to find out.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Apologies PB, but I am afraid the word "hypocrite" stays

Fair enough - not the first time I've been called that, doubt it'll be the last

[DodgyAgent]

As usual, you're resorting to mild abuse. I haven't called you any names, you're just a bloke with a different opinion. Unlike you, I can cope with people having a different opinion without needing to slag them as idiots, hypocrites etc. I know you'll never change your view of Thatcher, but is name-calling really likely to add much gravitas to your case?

Apologies PB, but I am afraid the word "hypocrite" stays

[expat]

you cheated by working abroad

I left in May 1979 and now that I live in the old country again, I find a country fit for barrow-boys to live in, but still no work for me.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If you like I will give you a list of companies that have been freed by Maggie from the yolk of Nationalisation/govt controlled markets. I will then argue that these companies have spent zillions on contractors in order to bring them in to the 20th century.

You idiots like to make "unknowable assumptions" about the negative impacts of Thatcher 20 years later (pathetic and tenuous ones at that), so I would just like to point out what a bunch of little hypocrites you are.

As usual, you're resorting to mild abuse. I haven't called you any names, you're just a bloke with a different opinion. Unlike you, I can cope with people having a different opinion without needing to slag them as idiots, hypocrites etc. I know you'll never change your view of Thatcher, but is name-calling really likely to add much gravitas to your case?

[DodgyAgent]

Except you make the arrogant and totally unknowable assumption that I'd be personally worse off if not for her. It doesn't matter how much you try to dress your opinion as fact

If you like I will give you a list of companies that have been freed by Maggie from the yolk of Nationalisation/govt controlled markets. I will then argue that these companies have spent zillions on contractors in order to bring them in to the 20th century.

You idiots like to make "unknowable assumptions" about the negative impacts of Thatcher 20 years later (pathetic and tenuous ones at that), so I would just like to point out what a bunch of little hypocrites you are.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Well if it is not mysoginy or middle class guilt that makes you overlook the fact that your personal wealth is entirely attributable to her reforms then what is it? you can chuck as many cliches about democracy in as you like but your hypocrisy still stinks

Except you make the arrogant and totally unknowable assumption that I'd be personally (financially) worse off if not for her. It doesn't matter how much you try to dress your opinion as fact, it's just your opinion and I disagree with it.

[DodgyAgent]

Mine isn't.

you cheated by working abroad

[expat]

Well if it is not mysoginy or middle class guilt that makes you overlook the fact that your personal wealth is entirely attributable to her reforms then what is it? you can chuck as many cliches about democracy in as you like but your hypocrisy still stinks

Mine isn't.