Reply to: trigger-happy goons

[HairyArsedBloke]

That's obstruction of justice if there was one. Trying to lie to cover up was probably almost as big as the mistake to shoot that guy (for which they bear less responsibility IMO), but lieing to cover up is 100% their call and a very wrong one.

George Bush and Tony Blair are in fact ultimately responsible for this by creating this false environment of fear which causes normally rational people to act in an irrational way.

Yes and Yes.

[darmstadt]

George Bush and Tony Blair are in fact ultimately responsible for this by creating this false environment of fear which causes normally rational people to act in an irrational way.

[AtW]

The point of this thread is that, after the event, back in their offices when the danger is passed, they lied about what happened, to cover up their operational errors. They need their arses well and truly kicked for that.

That's obstruction of justice if there was one. Trying to lie to cover up was probably almost as big as the mistake to shoot that guy (for which they bear less responsibility IMO), but lieing to cover up is 100% their call and a very wrong one.

[expat]

What I don't understand is what value there is in shooting someone 7 times in the head with hollow point bullets. You could maybe put some of what occurred down to adrenaline and misinformation, but it's hard to put to see how a reasonable person could pump 7 bullets into someone's head. Did he only stop at seven because he was out of ammo?

The requirement is to stop all brain function quickly enough to prevent the suicide bomber from detonating as his last act, so multiple head shots are required.

My problem is not with that but with the way that they shot the wrong guy without good reason (I am not speaking of the exact instant of shooting), and then lied about it consistently afterwards to cover up that.

[stackpole]

They were probably crapping their pants at the time that he was going to set off a bomb 6 feet from them.

Put yourself in their position!

A man a few feet away from you has a rucksack and matches the description of a bomber.
Several bombs have already gone off in the underground.

If he sets off a bomb, you are dead, you have a gun pointing at his head, everybody is terrified and screaming.
He moves his hand.............................................. ......

How many of you would have pulled the trigger?

Training day after day for life threatening situations; does not teach you to hesitate, it teaches you to act.

Whoooosh!

Nobody is arguing against all that. Now take a step back and review the start of this thread. It is not specifically about knocking the police for operational errors made during a time of danger, perceived or otherwise, or about how difficult it is to deal with terrorists.

The point of this thread is that, after the event, back in their offices when the danger is passed, they lied about what happened, to cover up their operational errors. They need their arses well and truly kicked for that.

[Bob Dalek]

The story is, of course, terrible, but there has to be an element of human f--k-up, rather than Police Execution Squad Blood Lust Frenzy?

[Moscow Mule]

Maybe we need to have a training course for people to know how to react when ill-informed, armed idiots surprise you, bleary-eyed first thing in the morning, shouting incoherent orders in a foreign language?

I believe it's covered in part 3.048 of the new Citizenship exam syllabus.

[HairyArsedBloke]

Maybe we need to have a training course for people to know how to react when ill-informed, armed idiots surprise you, bleary-eyed first thing in the morning, shouting incoherent orders in a foreign language?

[Diver]

Ah! it was the surveillance officer that was carrying a rucksack, not Menezes!

[Moscow Mule]

That's a crime punishable by death on its own

Yes, shoot everybody in London doing that in the head 7 times.

Would make my commute a lot more enjoyable.

[Diver]

He didn't have a rucksack, or a bag of any description: he'd left his tool bag with a work colleague the day before. The only thing he was carrying was a Metro newspaper.

That's a crime punishable by death on its own

[NickFitz]

A man a few feet away from you has a rucksack and matches the description of a bomber.

He didn't have a rucksack, or a bag of any description: he'd left his tool bag with a work colleague the day before. The only thing he was carrying was a Metro newspaper.

[TimberWolf]

A bit off-topic but if anyone saw "The Unsinkable Titanic" the other night you can see big cock-ups aren't anything new. You've heard the phrase 'a chain is only as strong as the weakest link', but in this case the documentary showed that it was a chain of errors that led to the disaster, and that it might have been averted but for many of these links being present.

These ranged from last minute changes to the design, not enough life boats, not filling them properly when they were used, poor quality iron/steel, binoculars not available on watch, ignored ice warnings (in part due to poor practises used in the wireless room) and travelling too fast. And hitting the iceberg. Even a lifeboat drill scheduled earlier had been cancelled.

[Spacecadet]

They were probably crapping their pants at the time that he was going to set off a bomb 6 feet from them.

Put yourself in their position!

A man a few feet away from you has a rucksack and matches the description of a bomber.
Several bombs have already gone off in the underground.

If he sets off a bomb, you are dead, you have a gun pointing at his head, everybody is terrified and screaming.
He moves his hand.............................................. ......

How many of you would have pulled the trigger?

Training day after day for life threatening situations; does not teach you to hesitate, it teaches you to act.

did he have a rucksack?

they didnt know what the target looked like, it was the job of the surveilance team to identify the target, they would then direct the shooters

[Diver]

They were probably crapping their pants at the time that he was going to set off a bomb 6 feet from them.

Put yourself in their position!

A man a few feet away from you has a rucksack and matches the description of a bomber.
Several bombs have already gone off in the underground.

If he sets off a bomb, you are dead, you have a gun pointing at his head, everybody is terrified and screaming.
He moves his hand.............................................. ......

How many of you would have pulled the trigger?

Training day after day for life threatening situations; does not teach you to hesitate, it teaches you to act.