Reply to: Recruiter Awards for Excellence 2009

[DodgyAgent]

Thanks Dodgy...that explains a few questions and I can see a need for good agencies now.

It is an unfulfilled need

[Board Game Geek]

Thanks Dodgy...that explains a few questions and I can see a need for good agencies now.

[DodgyAgent]

Thanks Dodgy, though it does beckon the question : Why use an external Rec Cons to do the work the in-house HR are paid to do in the first place ?

That is an interesting question.

In house recruitment can work and does where skills requirements are pretty straightforward. However as soon as a company tries to set up its own recruitment facility for difficult skills in engineering and IT then it doesnt work.
Why?

Firstly an inhouse facility is a monopoly which means if a hiring manager doesnt like the people dealing with his requirements then he will undermine them by trying to shoe horn his favourite agent onto the scene.

secondly in house recruiters are paid anyway whether they perform or not (eventually they get found out and get canned), whereas agencies dont earn anything unless placements are made. This powerful dynamic means that 3rd party agencies are hungrier.
Thirdly agencies have a mix of clients with more jobs and they therefore aggregate more and better Cvs because they have multiple opportunities for each candidate.. not so in house.
Fourthly if you think agencies are bad with feedback companies with in house recrutment are more interested in saving themselves work (best you get is an automated response) by hiding behind complex time consuming on line application processes than going out and making it easy for people to apply for a job with them. Also a lot of candidates (perm that is) like to chat about their careers, in a way that inhouse people are simply not interested in.

A lot of engineering companies such as Bechtel, Chicago Bridge &Iron, Kvaerner, Carillion, Fluor have their own agencies. Oracle used to have its own agency. What happens is that these entities either end up running the processes with a PSL of external suppliers (because they cannot fulfil their own company's requirements), and or they split off and end up being sold.

They rarely work because they cannot please all the people all of the time themselves.

[expat]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Custodes ipsos.

[snaw]

They are about to get an outsider to do IT for them. Why not start by getting an outsider to do the HR involved in finding them?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[expat]

Thanks Dodgy, though it does beckon the question : Why use an external Rec Cons to do the work the in-house HR are paid to do in the first place ?

They are about to get an outsider to do IT for them. Why not start by getting an outsider to do the HR involved in finding them?

[Board Game Geek]

If you have the patience to read through all this you will see that there is a lot of work involved in HR. Recruitment is just a small part of HR

Thanks Dodgy, though it does beckon the question : Why use an external Rec Cons to do the work the in-house HR are paid to do in the first place ?

[DodgyAgent]

You don't fit into my market; you are a prime example of outsourcing. Companies decided they don't want the overheads of recruitment so look to the agencies. They set a rate they believe is economically viable, you (not personally) then attempt to rape the poor contractor at the other end to improve your margin. Agencies are of no benefit to the contractor.

Contractors are not poor and being raped is as close as most of them get to sex. Show some gratitude.

[DodgyAgent]

Can anyone explain the point of having and paying for an internal HR department, if they don't screen, vet and interview candidates for the company ? Isn't that one of their jobs, under the purview of HR ?

http://www.cipd.co.uk/default.cipd

If you have the patience to read through all this you will see that there is a lot of work involved in HR. Recruitment is just a small part of HR

[expat]

You don't fit into my market; you are a prime example of outsourcing. Companies decided they don't want the overheads of recruitment so look to the agencies. They set a rate they believe is economically viable, you (not personally) then attempt to rape the poor contractor at the other end to improve your margin. Agencies are of no benefit to the contractor.

Agencies are a kind of outsourcing. Yes, I like that.

[Board Game Geek]

Can anyone explain the point of having and paying for an internal HR department, if they don't screen, vet and interview candidates for the company ? Isn't that one of their jobs, under the purview of HR ?

[snaw]

You are descending into nonsense, for example, your use of the word "happy" suggests that we are somehow being indulged. We are there because we fit into the market, as do you.

So who has rattled your cage today?

Just a turn of phrase, I'll invoke my right of substitution and use satisfied instead.

The point is still valid. No cage rattling, just passing the time till the finishing bell sounds

[Incognito]

You are descending into nonsense, for example, your use of the word "happy" suggests that we are somehow being indulged. We are there because we fit into the market, as do you.

So who has rattled your cage today?

You don't fit into my market; you are a prime example of outsourcing. Companies decided they don't want the overheads of recruitment so look to the agencies. They set a rate they believe is economically viable, you (not personally) then attempt to rape the poor contractor at the other end to improve your margin. Agencies are of no benefit to the contractor.

[DodgyAgent]

But you don't really. You save the company you're acting for money by cutting out the search and initial vetting process. But you don't go and find me a job, you just get them in from clientco, advertise them on a website and/or search your database and give us a call.

That's not saving me any money cause you're not going out looking for me, but for the client. I'm ok with that, but let's not pretend you're doing us a favour or saving me money on finding a job - these days all you have to do is go on the internet.

If you weren't around then companies would advertise direct themselves and cut you out, no salesmen for me required - but they're happy to use and pay you to do so, and you're happy to take a fee for placing us, and we're happy (Usually) to get a contract.

You are descending into nonsense, for example, your use of the word "happy" suggests that we are somehow being indulged. We are there because we fit into the market, as do you.

So who has rattled your cage today?

[Bob Dalek]

I never made a claim that we act for you other than find you (some) jobs and conduct the payroll. My point is that if were not needed we would not be there.

Like an appendix, you mean?