Reply to: Illegal immigration

[ace00]

Oh yes. I am one of the few here who already has an ID card (somewhat expired admittedly).

But it's not the ID card itself that's the problem, it's
a) the database behind it, and
b) the use that will be made of it, and the different balance of government vs citizen that will go with its introduction.

But didn't everyone know each other back then and the immigrants know their place?

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Oh yes. I am one of the few here who already has an ID card (somewhat expired admittedly).

But it's not the ID card itself that's the problem, it's
a) the database behind it, and
b) the use that will be made of it, and the different balance of government vs citizen that will go with its introduction.

I've got my late Father's one - we have the same first initial. It's a floppy bit of cardboard - no photo.

[expat]

Also, Britain had ID cards up until 1952.

Oh yes. I am one of the few here who already has an ID card (somewhat expired admittedly).

But it's not the ID card itself that's the problem, it's
a) the database behind it, and
b) the use that will be made of it, and the different balance of government vs citizen that will go with its introduction.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Unfortunately Immigration can't win. Lock them up in Dungavel and the likes and they're damned by the press and the looney left or let them go and trust them not to abscond and they're damned by the rest.

Policy and practise in these matters should be governed by the law, not PR and spin, it's a job not a popularity contest. I seriously doubt many people would object to the two men featured in the programme being locked up and then sent back to where they came from - nor indeed the bloke featured in the same programme who was driving without any documentation at all and had been here since 1998 on a six month tourist visa. If immigration aren't going to enforce the law, let's just save money and fire them all - otherwise what are they for?

Also, Britain had ID cards up until 1952.

Indeed, Winston Churchill's govenment abolished them. Lord Chief Justice Goddard remarked in the landmark case that led to the abolition that the continuation of ID cards was an annoyance to the public "and tended to turn law-abiding subjects into law-breakers"

[Incognito]

Unfortunately Immigration can't win. Lock them up in Dungavel and the likes and they're damned by the press and the looney left or let them go and trust them not to abscond and they're damned by the rest.

Also, Britain had ID cards up until 1952.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

What is the problem with ID cards? Germany has had them for years

Spain's had Bullfighting for years and we don't want that.

and if British people are so annoyed about illegal immigrants then they would welcome them.

Except we're (mostly) not so dim as to think having ID cards will stop (or even cut significantly) illegal immigration

Over here, you have to carry ID with you all the time and when stopped you have to produce it.

Over here we are not used to demands to see our papers - something to do with history makes us uncomfortable. We also have a historic presumption of innocence - so if the cops stop me they can ask who I am, but they cannot demand proof. If they think I'm lying it's up to them to arrest me and prove it - and I think that is the right balance.

If you don't have an ID on you then the police will either call someone to ascertain you are who you are and then follow up with a home visit although in most cases they will drive you to where you (say you) live and get you to produce ID. If you don't have valid ID then you're arrested and kicked out of the country, said and done.

As I said in the original post, in this country if the Police find illegal immigrants with no ID they give them a piece of paper telling them to report to the authorities and let them go - which is why ID cards won't make any difference.
As for the German police "kicking people out" - where do they send people with no ID? I suspect you haven't really done much research on this have you?

[TimberWolf]

And Timberwolf, you must be a hoot at parties...

[HairyArsedBloke]

A daily beheading of all illegals, live on telly, would, I suggest, put an end to the problem in about 30 minutes.

I object



You can't go showing that sort of material on free to air television.
You'll damage my snuff video business.

BTW. How much do you want for the overseas video and PPV rights?

[Bob Dalek]

The awful thing is that we couldn't stand that (at least I couldn't), but some immigrants would still take the risk.

I didn't mean Scots!

[expat]

It's all a moot point anyway as NL will be out in a year and a half. ID cards will be scrapped under a Tory Govt.

And immigration will be stopped, the economy turned round, IR35 abolished, welfare scroungers eliminated, crime controlled .........
........ in the Big Rock Candy Mountain.....

[expat]

A daily beheading of all illegals, live on telly, would, I suggest, put an end to the problem in about 30 minutes.

The awful thing is that we couldn't stand that (at least I couldn't), but some immigrants would still take the risk.

[ratewhore]

It's all a moot point anyway as NL will be out in a year and a half. ID cards will be scrapped under a Tory Govt.

And Timberwolf, you must be a hoot at parties...

[Cyberman]

ID cards won't stop illegal immigration though, not while mass legal immigration is happening. What's to stop people returning with forged ID? You can't run biometric tests with large databases and expect to have a high false accept rate without a corresponding high false reject rate. A lot of work would be involved in those false rejects, too much.

ID cards will mean many thousands of public servants to administer. The public sector is the source of New Lie voters so is it really any wonder that they try to expand this sector at every opportunity, regardless of cost!!

[Diver]

A daily beheading of all illegals, live on telly, would, I suggest, put an end to the problem in about 30 minutes.

They'd be sneaking aboard anything leaving the country

[Bob Dalek]

A daily beheading of all illegals, live on telly, would, I suggest, put an end to the problem in about 30 minutes.