Reply to: More Hyundai woes

[TykeMerc]

I have wondered how many valleys, gorges, rivers and hills we have in the UK that would be viable Hydro electric sites. it's not like we're short of rain in sizable chunks of this country.

Admittedly some of the suitable sites have towns all over them so there could be some controversy

[ASB]

The same drawback applies to hydrogen, since it's not a primary energy source and has to be created by some means, or extracted from fossil fuels. Hydrogen has big problems with storage too though so I don't think that's looking like it's on the cards. We may [speculation mode] be entering an electricity age though, where we use less fossil fuels and more electrical energy sources, e.g. nuclear [/speculation mode].

I think there is some island in the pacific that the Japanese are testing hydrogen fuel cells. The advantage of this place is that it never stops raining and they have a load of hydro electric plants. Apparently it's quite east to use a process to produce a viable quantity of hydrogen in these circumstances.

I don't know where else in the world this might work with current technology. Apart from Wales.

[TimberWolf]

Naahh coal is what you want. We are sitting on tons of the stuff all because Maggie decided to save it for us by stopping those blokes in Wales and the like from digging it up.

Unfortunately the Victorians nicked most of it and we are now on rations.

[TimberWolf]

Pedal-power, like Fred Flintstone, that's the answer.

Might seem so, but cavemen muscles are only about 25% efficient and their energy source (food) uses up a lot of energy to manufacture. They aren't too bad at pedalling bicycles over short distances and at slow speeds, but better would be an electric bike at 80 odd percent efficient and using primary sources of power like mains leccy generated from dinosaur dung.

[BoredBloke]

Naahh coal is what you want. We are sitting on tons of the stuff all because Maggie decided to save it for us by stopping those blokes in Wales and the like from digging it up.

[Bob Dalek]

Pedal-power, like Fred Flintstone, that's the answer.

[DimPrawn]

Batteries take hours to charge where as a tank of liquid fuel takes minutes. Plus of course what fuel do you use to generate the electricity in the first place?

Rather than charge batteries would it not be more convenient to swap battery packs and always have one on charge?

Or for liquid batteries, drain the spent electrolyte and refill with charged electrolyte (much like filling with petrol)?

[TimberWolf]

I doubt that electric cars will become truly practical until fuel cells become viable and hydrogen available at fueling stations.

Batteries take hours to charge where as a tank of liquid fuel takes minutes. Plus of course what fuel do you use to generate the electricity in the first place?

The same drawback applies to hydrogen, since it's not a primary energy source and has to be created by some means, or extracted from fossil fuels. Hydrogen has big problems with storage too though so I don't think that's looking like it's on the cards. We may [speculation mode] be entering an electricity age though, where we use less fossil fuels and more electrical energy sources, e.g. nuclear [/speculation mode].

[sasguru]

Waiting for them to tell me what they'll give me in PX. Still owe £2500 on the finance, so anything less than that and I'm screwed.

Finance! You used finance to buy a Hyundai?

Don't know whether to or

[TimberWolf]

I was quite tempted by that electric moped that was launched recently, but you need to charge it under cover so it was impractical for us.

I'm quite tempted by an electric bike, but would feel foolish using it

[TykeMerc]

I doubt that electric cars will become truly practical until fuel cells become viable and hydrogen available at fueling stations.

Batteries take hours to charge where as a tank of liquid fuel takes minutes. Plus of course what fuel do you use to generate the electricity in the first place?

[Moscow Mule]

Yeah, petrol is hard to beat on energy density. About 10 times what the best batteries currently manage. But petrol engines deliver around 3/4 kW power per kg and an electric motor delivers around 8 times that power by weight, so a slight weight saving there. Electric cars may be practical for shorter distances where the batteries could be quite small and light and charged overnight, or perhaps in a more distant future, for ultra high performance at more modest prices than having a monster engine.

I was quite tempted by that electric moped that was launched recently, but you need to charge it under cover so it was impractical for us.

[TimberWolf]

Electric motors are light, batteries however aren't. Hydrocarbon fuels are much lighter than batteries for an equivalent amount of energy and a lot easier to transport and install in a vehicle for refueling purposes.

Yeah, petrol is hard to beat on energy density. About 10 times what the best batteries currently manage. But petrol engines deliver around 3/4 kW power per kg and an electric motor delivers around 8 times that power by weight, so a slight weight saving there. Electric cars may be practical for shorter distances where the batteries could be quite small and light and charged overnight, or perhaps in a more distant future, for ultra high performance at more modest prices than having a monster engine.

[TykeMerc]

Roll on electric cars which will presumably be a lot simpler and easier to fix than the infernal combustion engine and the increasing complexity used to get diminishing returns on fuel economy. Electric motors are circa 90% efficient, compared to petrol engines that probably won't beat 30% or so even if they are packed full with electronic gizmos. Electric motors are lighter too, which means a lighter body which means a smaller and lighter motor...and you get to die in a head-on collision and squished by a juggernaut. The last is not such a good selling point.

Electric motors are light, batteries however aren't. Hydrocarbon fuels are much lighter than batteries for an equivalent amount of energy and a lot easier to transport and install in a vehicle for refueling purposes.

[Moscow Mule]

Roll on electric cars which will presumably be a lot simpler and easier to fix than the infernal combustion engine and the increasing complexity used to get diminishing returns on fuel economy. Electric motors are circa 90% efficient, compared to petrol engines that probably won't beat 30% or so even if they are packed full with electronic gizmos. Electric motors are lighter too, which means a lighter body which means a smaller and lighter motor...and you get to die in a head-on collision and squished by a juggernaut. The last is not such a good selling point.

Thing about electric motors is that the (currently) have to have batteries attached to them which (currently) weigh a fair bit.