Reply to: Georgia's isolation increases

[Paddy]

Copyright Shaunbhoy´s RSM ~1982

I have been on this forum since Y2k. I have seen newbie’s come and go. The main reason they go is because the forum is dominated a cliquey group of posters who think the forum is just for them and to the exclusion of others. If anyone does not share there opinion they are ignored or have jest comments made at them. Some have not got the brains to make a constructive comment and can on and are only able to criticise others. Just look at the numbers of members compared with the number of members who post.

[Churchill]

Oh lookee! The village idiots are having a fight. It's like watching 2 sheep savage each other.

Copyright Shaunbhoy´s RSM ~1982

[Cyberman]

Please link or read the orginal text of his speech. (He did not say that)

As I do not speak the language reading the actual text is pointless. I can only go by translation, as applies to most of us Westerners. If he did not say that then he should deny it and at least attempt to placate Israel and avoid this potential path to conflict.

His actions in pursuing nuclear weapons and refusing to cooperate with the moderate West, especially the EU is not helping his cause. The answer to this political impass is in his hands and he will have to be prepared to accept responsibility if Israel does act in its own interests of self-preservation.

[Paddy]

The Iranian president stated that he wanted to see Israel wiped out, denies the Holocaust and he is also allegedly building nuclear weapons. There is an implicit threat that Israel simply cannot afford to ignore and they obviously will not.
In fact I believe that plans are already afoot to kidnap and bring Ahmadinejad to trial in Israel for crimes against their state. Personally, I hope they succeed !!

Please link or read the orginal text of his speech. (He did not say that)

Found one...
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle12790.htm

[Cyberman]

As much as I despise the Iranian government they have never said anything about attacking Israel. Lie enough times people will believe it's true . It’s yet another version of the west will be obliterated in 45 mins

The Iranian president stated that he wanted to see Israel wiped out, denies the Holocaust and he is also allegedly building nuclear weapons. There is an implicit threat that Israel simply cannot afford to ignore and they obviously will not.
In fact I believe that plans are already afoot to kidnap and bring Ahmadinejad to trial in Israel for crimes against their state. Personally, I hope they succeed !!

[Paddy]

I think you mean 'autonomous state'. Israel attacks out of provocation from muslim states as self-defence and annexes territory to protect itself from suicide-bombers and hostile gunmen etc.
I can understand why the West back them and for those same reasons I have a great deal of sympathy for them. They are a truly democratic state at constant peril of attack from muslim extremist states, not least Iran.

As much as I despise the Iranian government they have never said anything about attacking Israel. Lie enough times people will believe it's true . It’s yet another version of the west will be obliterated in 45 mins

[Cyberman]

Crimea is an automations state and is in favour of keeping the Russian base. When I got my Ukrainian Visa I had to get a separate one for the Crimea.


The problem with international law is that it is open to interpretation therefore state pick and choose what an when suits them. Israel attacks Lebanon, that’s OK and the EU then give them most favoured trading status. Israel annexes more West bank territory last week, UK government says nothing.

I think you mean 'autonomous state'. Israel attacks out of provocation from muslim states as self-defence and annexes territory to protect itself from suicide-bombers and hostile gunmen etc.
I can understand why the West back them and for those same reasons I have a great deal of sympathy for them. They are a truly democratic state at constant peril of attack from muslim extremist states, not least Iran.

[Paddy]

Nothing ever is, but if Russia behaves in an unlawful way then I would expect other states to consider whether they then have an obligation to adhere to the law that Moscow so frequently flouts.
The lease at Sevastapol expires in 2017...... Russia should start to behave as a friendly nation or expect to lose that lease. Meanwhile, I gather that Ukraine are aiming to change the terms of the lease. Interesting times ........

Crimea is an automations state and is in favour of keeping the Russian base. When I got my Ukrainian Visa I had to get a separate one for the Crimea.


The problem with international law is that it is open to interpretation therefore state pick and choose what an when suits them. Israel attacks Lebanon, that’s OK and the EU then give them most favoured trading status. Israel annexes more West bank territory last week, UK government says nothing.

[Cyberman]

Not quite that simple:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

Nothing ever is, but if Russia behaves in an unlawful way then I would expect other states to consider whether they then have an obligation to adhere to the law that Moscow so frequently flouts.
The lease at Sevastapol expires in 2017...... Russia should start to behave as a friendly nation or expect to lose that lease. Meanwhile, I gather that Ukraine are aiming to change the terms of the lease. Interesting times ........

[Paddy]

Two can play at the ransom game. The Russian fleet uses Ukraine's ports and I believe that Ukraine is about to deny them that use. Fair play as far as I am concerned.

Not quite that simple:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

[Cyberman]

Yes Russians did put up the gas prices, not double to start with. The Ukrainian government were under the impression that that could join woo NATA and the UK and expect to pay the same low price for gas as they did in the USSR. I really don’t understand how the same people who go on about market forces being king then are against it when it is applied by Russian companies. Even Palin was going about the USA should not to be held to ransom by high Russian oil prices.

Two can play at the ransom game. The Russian fleet uses Ukraine's ports and I believe that Ukraine is about to deny them that use. Fair play as far as I am concerned.

[Paddy]

I think you will find that Russia suddenly doubled its prices to screw the Ukraine and the Ukraine refused to pay. Let me know your findings and links re gas and the poisoning of the president.

Yes Russians did put up the gas prices, not double to start with. The Ukrainian government were under the impression that that could join woo NATA and the UK and expect to pay the same low price for gas as they did in the USSR. I really don’t understand how the same people who go on about market forces being king then are against it when it is applied by Russian companies. Even Palin was going about the USA should not to be held to ransom by high Russian oil prices.

[Cyberman]

Two official lists of victims have already been published. One includes 311 names, dates of birth, causes of death, and burial locations, of South Ossetian citizens, so far confirmed killed in the fighting between August 7 and 12. The other official list includes the name of 54 additional civilian casualties of the conflict.

How can you “force” Russia to publicise the list 2,000 dead?
What are you suggestions on how to “force Russia”.

How about backing some of you rhetoric up with some facts?

I'll bet you that the 311 includes russian troops, which yet again would be dishonest.

Russia is still occupying Georgia, which says a lot about their intentions, a month after their incursion. They really are the lowest form of intelligence IMO.

[Paddy]

Absolutely, and I believe it was an authority such as the UN that gave the official 63 figure. The real criminal thing is that Russia used a figure of 2,000 to justify its incursion into Georgia after South Ossetia had already been rocketing Georgia for a week or so before Georgia retaliated.

Russia should be forced to provide evidence of those deaths or announce a climbdown and admit its dishonesty.

Two official lists of victims have already been published. One includes 311 names, dates of birth, causes of death, and burial locations, of South Ossetian citizens, so far confirmed killed in the fighting between August 7 and 12. The other official list includes the name of 54 additional civilian casualties of the conflict.

How can you “force” Russia to publicise the list 2,000 dead?
What are you suggestions on how to “force Russia”.

How about backing some of you rhetoric up with some facts?

[Cyberman]

I will lookup the links when I get back in the UK late tonight.

Re Russia cutting off gas to the Ukraine etc. Look up the facts first, the Ukraine did not pay their gas bill for over a year, they used the gas in transit for Western Europe. Do you expect Russian private companies to supply free gas! Would the UK supply free gas to France?

I think you will find that Russia suddenly doubled its prices to screw the Ukraine and the Ukraine refused to pay. Let me know your findings and links re gas and the poisoning of the president.