Reply to: Russian ethnic cleansing of Georgians

[AtW]

It’s just that you are blind and full of hate and so ignore the facts

I am not blind and I don't ignore the facts.

In fact until about 2003 I was more or less neutral towards Putin - nobody knew who he was and he seemed to have been pursueing pretty sensible policies - like flat 12% income tax, very good idea (not suggested by him but he approved), this was fine. Unfortunatly about that time oil price started going up and Putin by then put his people in most places so he started to show his true colours.

Unlike you I am not only in touch with what happens in Russia but also have chatted personally to people who have first hand experience with those people. So I don't base my views on what I read in Western papers (very mild critisisms of Putin), I can see deliberate lies of state owned media in Russia and this alone is pretty good to make long reaching conclusions - unlike you I lived in USSR and can see common patterns (even though I was young at the time).

The day will come when Putin is fully exposed - the scum like him will probably kill himself or his buddies kill him, I am not sure even I will be alive to see it (strangely people who oppose Putin don't live long), but I sure hope that you live long enough to see what the scumbag he was and remember this moment and feel ashamed of yourself for giving him an ounce of support.

[AtW]

Putins argument seem very reasonable and rational, contrarily to the US-UK imperialist bulltulip which is spread to their populace.
Will Russia become also a colony of the anglos ?

Let me ask just one question - is Polonium-210 with which yet another of Putin was murdered is part of that "reasonable and rational" Putin's arguement?

Or maybe dozens of killed opposition reporters and MPs are part of arguement? It's funny how Putin's enemies die early from death of that kind where as his supporters prosper. Maybe it's a "reasonable and rational" policy, to me this smells of Hitler methods.

[Moscow Mule]

If Diver or myself disappear from this BB, IT WAS PUTIN !!!!

It will probably be some of those Nashi idiots.

Zealot just isn't a strong enough word...

[Cyberman]

<------Just for Putin and his gang of murderous henchmen.

I wonder if he'll have me killed now, like everyone else that has spoken out against him.
hundreds of his opponents and critics have mysteriously died in unexplainable accidents and murders.---Strange that, in a so called democracy

If Diver or myself disappear from this BB, IT WAS PUTIN !!!!

[Diver]

<------Just for Putin and his gang of murderous henchmen.

I wonder if he'll have me killed now, like everyone else that has spoken out against him.
hundreds of his opponents and critics have mysteriously died in unexplainable accidents and murders.---Strange that, in a so called democracy

[sappatz]

Russia

Putins argument seem very reasonable and rational, contrarily to the US-UK imperialist bulltulip which is spread to their populace.
Will Russia become also a colony of the anglos ?

He'd do well there - as long as you support Putin and kiss butt of his mates you will make good money and be allowed to write, do TV etc. Of course to do that one would need to have complete lack of conscience but it ain't a problem Paddy, innit?

same in UK and US dont you think ? do you think that when you do a career in journalism, objectivity will bring rewards ?
Western double standards are obvious to anyone (note that it has always been so)

[Paddy]

He'd do well there - as long as you support Putin and kiss butt of his mates you will make good money and be allowed to write, do TV etc. Of course to do that one would need to have complete lack of conscience but it ain't a problem Paddy, innit?

AtW, What support for Putin? When did I write that? In fact never. It’s just that you are blind and full of hate and so ignore the facts. Like others who loose an argument you have to resort to flippant remarks that have nothing to do with the subject. You’re your remarks are just like people who say that if you are against the invasion of Iraq you must then be on the side of Sadam.

[AtW]

Excellent Journalism Paddy, Why don't you go work as a reporter in Russia. They're running out so there are plenty of vacancies

He'd do well there - as long as you support Putin and kiss butt of his mates you will make good money and be allowed to write, do TV etc. Of course to do that one would need to have complete lack of conscience but it ain't a problem Paddy, innit?

[Diver]

Bombing of FRY = legitimate
Kosovo independence = legitimate
Israel attacks Lebanon because of two captured solders = legitimate
GB invades Falklands = Legitimate
US invades Iraq = Legitimate
Metropolitan Police shoot dead man with table leg. = mistake
Metropolitan Police shoot dead man with rucksack. = mistake
John Smith (former head of Labour party) = Heart attract in hotel bath
Dr Kelly cut wrists with no blood = suicide
BBC uses film footage of Ossetia and labels it footage of Tbilisi = mistake

What's a Heart attract?

Excellent Journalism Paddy, Why don't you go work as a reporter in Russia. They're running out so there are plenty of vacancies

Far from being an individual tragedy, the death of Ivan Safronov will be seen by many as part of a grim trend. The Kommersant reporter is at least the 20th Russian journalist to die in suspicious circumstances since 2000, when Vladimir Putin assumed the Russian presidency. Shot, stabbed or poisoned, the journalists have two things in common: no one has been convicted, or in most cases even arrested, after their deaths. And all of them had angered powerful vested interests which appear to suffer little restraint in dealing with their enemies.

Link

[AtW]

Bombing of FRY = legitimate
Kosovo independence = legitimate
Israel attacks Lebanon because of two captured solders = legitimate
GB invades Falklands = Legitimate
US invades Iraq = Legitimate
Metropolitan Police shoot dead man with table leg. = mistake
Metropolitan Police shoot dead man with rucksack. = mistake
John Smith (former head of Labour party) = Heart attract in hotel bath
Dr Kelly cut wrists with no blood = suicide
BBC uses film footage of Ossetia and labels it footage of Tbilisi = mistake

That's all you can dig over a few decades?

Do you want me to post list of Putins enemies killed or numbers murdered in Chechnya again to see that Russia's actions fit the pattern of evil much better than issues you lumped together above?

FYI I never thought invasion of Iraq was good idea or even legitimate (formally it might be) - but at least in this case it is was known that Saddam Hussein is not a democratic nice person who treats his people with respect and dignity. Not a justification for invasion but a big difference between what Russia did there.

Also this Kosovo stuff is totally different - did the West annex it? No. Russia on the other hand effectively annexed those territories - the closest most correct comparison is what Hitler did.

Also, people who did not agree with Iraq invasion voiced that in public and Blair did not kill them or did not close newspapers who were against him - Putin did all that early on when he levelled Chechnya to the ground.

West is not perfect, it is not white - a shade of grey perhaps, but when you deal with something seriously close to black one should not complain about lacking perfect white stuff.

[Paddy]

It's certainly not legitimate - even by Russian laws. The Russian forces entered territory of different state - Russian laws required President to get sanction (which was given later - backdated) for this, and international law is pretty clear on this - minimum is declaration of war is necessary. Hitler and the Japanese made it more legitimate when they attacked USSR and USA - the laws were never exactly the stopping barrier to Russia, it's just not the way things are done there.

Ossetia was financed by Russia and regular shelling was done from there - effectively Russia had undeclared war on Georgia for a long time and recently it intencified. Ask yourself how was it possible for so many troops and tanks to move in so quickly? That was possible because they were ready and prepared - just like when Hitler attacked USSR. In fact some facts coming out that indicate that a large group of those forces was already in Ossetia before official war started.

BBC is very mild on the issue if anything. If you want to know what propaganda is you should watch (if you can understand it) Russian TV. And if you don't then you don't know **** so don't even mention word "propaganda" because you yourself was never subjected to it (unlike me).

Bombing of FRY = legitimate
Kosovo independence = legitimate
Israel attacks Lebanon because of two captured solders = legitimate
GB invades Falklands = Legitimate
US invades Iraq = Legitimate
Metropolitan Police shoot dead man with table leg. = mistake
Metropolitan Police shoot dead man with rucksack. = mistake
John Smith (former head of Labour party) = Heart attract in hotel bath
Dr Kelly cut wrists with no blood = suicide
BBC uses film footage of Ossetia and labels it footage of Tbilisi = mistake

[Diver]

the BBC war propaganda machine is working in full swing about Georgia.

The problem is that Georgia was encouraged by Western governments into crushing Ossetia. and the Russian reaction is more than legitimate in those circumstances

and another pathetic defensive response by one of Vladimir Putins puppets

[Cyberman]

the BBC war propaganda machine is working in full swing about Georgia.

The problem is that Georgia was encouraged by Western governments into crushing Ossetia. and the Russian reaction is more than legitimate in those circumstances

Russia never does anything legitimate.

[AtW]

the Russian reaction is more than legitimate in those circumstances

It's certainly not legitimate - even by Russian laws. The Russian forces entered territory of different state - Russian laws required President to get sanction (which was given later - backdated) for this, and international law is pretty clear on this - minimum is declaration of war is necessary. Hitler and the Japanese made it more legitimate when they attacked USSR and USA - the laws were never exactly the stopping barrier to Russia, it's just not the way things are done there.

Ossetia was financed by Russia and regular shelling was done from there - effectively Russia had undeclared war on Georgia for a long time and recently it intencified. Ask yourself how was it possible for so many troops and tanks to move in so quickly? That was possible because they were ready and prepared - just like when Hitler attacked USSR. In fact some facts coming out that indicate that a large group of those forces was already in Ossetia before official war started.

BBC is very mild on the issue if anything. If you want to know what propaganda is you should watch (if you can understand it) Russian TV. And if you don't then you don't know **** so don't even mention word "propaganda" because you yourself was never subjected to it (unlike me).

[sappatz]

Georgia

the BBC war propaganda machine is working in full swing about Georgia.

The problem is that Georgia was encouraged by Western governments into crushing Ossetia. and the Russian reaction is more than legitimate in those circumstances