Reply to: Starting without contract

[tim123]

I am a little nervous about that, yes, but on the other hand they've been really efficient and helpful in all other dealings so far. I suspect the delay is down to the client in this case as they're a big telecom organisation, and those places can really plod sometimes.

One beginning with E - they can be a real PITA signing off a contractor (OK place to work once they have done so).

I'm told that one beginning with N aren't much better, though no personal experience.

tim

[dang65]

No, but I do know people who have got in trouble later with an agency who initially CBA to do a simple thing like sending out a written contract before the starting date.

If they can't "do the right thing" when you still have an easy option to walk, why would they do so when you are stuck with you feet under the desk?

tim

I am a little nervous about that, yes, but on the other hand they've been really efficient and helpful in all other dealings so far. I suspect the delay is down to the client in this case as they're a big telecom organisation, and those places can really plod sometimes.

[tim123]

Ah, good old Contractor UK forums. Two replies, totally contradicting each other.

Anyone actually got into trouble with a late contract including some insane clause or other?

No, but I do know people who have got in trouble later with an agency who initially CBA to do a simple thing like sending out a written contract before the starting date.

If they can't "do the right thing" when you still have an easy option to walk, why would they do so when you are stuck with you feet under the desk?

tim

[expat]

good point, what would happen if after a couple of weeks you said "here's my contract" and the agency said "here's ours" and they had contradictory clauses ??

I guess it must be something to do with you being the supplier of services...

I would guess that in the interim, "reasonable" mutual terms could be assumed. Thereafter, if you didn't agree, it would be over. And I'm pretty sure that if their T&Cs, that you wouldn't agree to, included no-quit on your part, and 25,000 indemnity for failing to complete, that they'd have trouble enforcing that as of the moment that you saw it for the first time. If you then continued, you could be assumed to have agreed.

[Bluebird]

IANAL but I do not see why, if you start work without a written contract, you should be presumed to have agreed to any T&Cs the other party may suggest, while they are not presumed to have agreed to yours.

good point, what would happen if after a couple of weeks you said "here's my contract" and the agency said "here's ours" and they had contradictory clauses ??

I guess it must be something to do with you being the supplier of services...

[NotAllThere]

... my role is to deliver and walk away when it done (Application Intergration). ...

Make sure it's working day one, and get the hell out of there before day two.

This did in fact happen at one site. Go live 1st May, big do, directors there and everything, first EDI order received, all working smoothly. May 2nd, no EDI - turned out on April 2nd the service provider had asked whether it was ok to delete the mailbox, as it hadn't been used for the six months since it was set up. The numpty they talked to, who wasn't on the project, said yes fine. OK, says service provider, we'll start the one month clock ticking...

The director of IT found said numpty in the canteen; walks up from behind, hand on shoulder - "Why did you authorise the deletion of mailbox XYZ?"

An image I'll treasure.

[expat]

Not unusual for me to start a gig without the contract in hand either, but like the others I always get a draft contract with T's & C's and discuss anything I'm not happy with.

BEst option. Though in practice I always seem to have to go in without a contract (time pressure, distance, phone interview/face already known), and it has never been a problem. In fact the only contract that had anything in it that I really objected to, I did read and sign before starting! More fool me.

IANAL but I do not see why, if you start work without a written contract, you should be presumed to have agreed to any T&Cs the other party may suggest, while they are not presumed to have agreed to yours.

[oracleslave]

I am not a complete fool

Never said or implied that you were

[TykeMerc]

Not unusual for me to start a gig without the contract in hand either, but like the others I always get a draft contract with T's & C's and discuss anything I'm not happy with.

[alreadypacked]

AP what sort of Application Integration work do you do? Is it the technical side or BA/PM work?

I did work in telecoms, technical side.

[DimPrawn]

I am not a complete fool, I did have an email copy of the contract. But I don't usually stay very long, my role is to deliver and walk away when it done (Application Intergration). New role delivering Methology and Framework, usually the same short term roles.

AP what sort of Application Integration work do you do? Is it the technical side or BA/PM work?

[alreadypacked]

Sounds mad to me. AFAIK by starting you are implicitly accepting the agencies contract, leaving them free to put anything they like in there.

I am not a complete fool, I did have an email copy of the contract. But I don't usually stay very long, my role is to deliver and walk away when it done (Application Intergration). New role delivering Methology and Framework, usually the same short term roles.

[Bluebird]

Sounds mad to me. AFAIK by starting you are implicitly accepting the agencies contract, leaving them free to put anything they like in there.

whs - at lease ask for a copy of their standard contract so you can review the T&C you are going to sign up to...

[rootsnall]

I've started plenty of gigs without a contract. I'd ask for a draft copy of the likely contract from the agency.

[dang65]

Ah, good old Contractor UK forums. Two replies, totally contradicting each other.

Anyone actually got into trouble with a late contract including some insane clause or other?