Tebbit attacks 'unreformed' Islam

[Not So Wise]

Neither do we even know for sure what the grievance is and if we did, it would not necessarily be in our power to address it.

The grievance is simple, it's the flip side of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" which is "the friend of my enemy is my enemy".
Israel is the main enemy for the arab world, USA is Israel's main supporter, UK is one of the main supporters of USA, thus a target

Might seem nearly like schoolyard politics but it is nothing new, whole cold war was pretty much same thing.

What should be interesting over the next decade is USA's slow withdrawl of unconditional support for Israel and figureing out what are the main cause's for this, if it is fear of arab terrorists, loss of political influence of rich and powerful american jews (or even american jews droping support for Israel themselves due to the increased fanaticism of jews in israel) or the current rise in financial and voting power of the christian right in USA or combination of all of the above.

And then seeing how the arab world changes in it's views in response to these changes.

[Not So Wise]

IMO the best solution is to prove that there is no God

Ahh if we only could, but to do such a thing we would have to get all the beleivers to agree on what god is and what he does.
Everytime science proves that "god" did not do something either the scientists get lynched (if the bible bashers feel they can get away with it legally, human law that is, they never seem to have a problem breaking religious law when it suits them) or a new group of religious nut jobs come along and move the goal posts.....then a few hundred years later they try to move them back again. eg Evolution vs creationism

[vista]

It is Tebbit that is unreformed

What a plonk er!!!

He spends all his time pointing out all the problems and ailments of the UK constantly looking backwards when anybody with any nouse figured out years ago that it doesn't matter that the country is going to hell in a hand cart what really matters is making a pile of cash along the way so as to insulate you and yours from the forces of liberalism that are arrayed against us and that may mean having enough cash to leave and start again elsewhere.

I don't mind the UK turning into a corpse of its former self (too many PC marxists in power to stop it) but I do mind that I make a lot of cash whilst it happens.

Tebbit spends too much time thinking about today and yesterday to make any money out of tomorrow.

[AtW]

If you had gone to live in Spain and a war started over Gibaltrar, which country would you fight for?

War of getting extra portion of bread in a concentration camp? I mean is not it a standard reaction of Govts to detain foreign citizens who happened to be in their country when war was declared by country of origin of these citizens?

IMO the best solution is to prove that there is no God -- this would automatically remove incentive of heaven with 70 virgins and close the matter completely. Unfortunately it would also mean Chico's of this world won't have much to preach about -- unfortunate for them of course, which is why he prefers mass murder to take place rather than admit to simple thing -- there is no God.

[xoggoth]

I always thought Tebbit's cricket test a bit daft. Not because it isn't a true test but because it's normal behaviour. If you had gone to live in Spain and a war started over Gibaltrar, which country would you fight for?

However, it is not very important. If such an improbable event did happen, we would do what we did in the last war: secure our safety by rounding up a few 10k of Spaniards and release them when the conflict was over.

Practically, the problems with Islam are of a completely different dimension. We cannot protect ourselves in the same way because we are not dealing with foreign nationals from one particular country but with an ideology that is a major factor in a dozen or more countries and has adherents in just about all of them. Some of the recent bombers were from Christian Jamaica. We cannot even rule out the possibility that future terrorists will be white British. There is therefore no way of readily identifying which group the threat comes from.

Neither do we even know for sure what the grievance is and if we did, it would not necessarily be in our power to address it. Iraq, sure, but we also seem to be lumped by some into the "anti-Islamic" West for reasons which are beyond our control. It wasn't the UK that set up bases in Saudi Arabia nor (I believe) UK vetos that allow Israel to get away with anything at the UN.

[BobTheCrate]

"A society is defined by its culture. It is not defined by its race, it is not a matter of skin colour or ethnicity, it is a matter of culture."

-Absolutely spot on-

"If you have two societies in the same place then you are going to have problems.."

Alot to be said for that although I don't think that it is necessarily inevitable. Some cultures will mix together much better than others. Other cultures will struggle to mix or even tolerate any other in its midst.

[Lucifer Box]

And all this time I thought he was a Russian Jamaican.

Speaking of which, I really fancy a nibble of Old Jamaica... anyone got a spare square? (And don't try and fob me off with an imaginary square with alternating convex and concave sides or whatever it was).

[wobbegong]

but one gotto respect him courage

I thought you were Russian not Jamaican.

[n5gooner]

so how long until we hear the words

fatwa
and
Tebbit

in the same breath.......

[AtW]

Tebbit attacks 'unreformed' Islam

Islam is so unreformed there have been no real advances in art, literature, science or technology in the Muslim world in 500 years, Lord Tebbit says.

The ex-Tory chairman also told the e-politix website multiculturalism was in danger of undermining UK society.

In the 1980s he questioned the loyalty of immigrants who backed cricket teams from their countries of origin.

He says if he had been heeded it might have stopped the London bombings. A key Muslim group said he was "misguided".

Restrictive interpretation?

"To reduce the terrorism problem to simply blaming multiculturalism is blinkered and indeed dangerous," a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain said.

He added it was true science had not made the progress in the Muslim world that it has in the West.

"I do not believe this is due to Islam but instead due to a restrictive interpretation of the faith by too many Muslims."

"When it comes to art and literature, Lord Tebbit is completely wrong - there is a vibrant arts scene in many Muslim countries. He would recognise this himself if he understood Arabic or Persian or Turkish or any of the many languages in the Muslim world."

In is interview, Lord Tebbit said the 'cricket test' was a means of gauging whether a community had integrated.

Multicultural society

"If a community was looking back at where it had come from instead of looking forward with the people to whom they had come to, then there is going to be a problem sooner or later."

Lord Tebbit said multicultural society was "an impossibility" because if there were two cultures there would also be two societies.

"A society is defined by its culture. It is not defined by its race, it is not a matter of skin colour or ethnicity, it is a matter of culture.

"If you have two societies in the same place then you are going to have problems, like the kind we saw on 7 July, sooner or later," he said.

He warned London was "sinking into the same abyss that Londonderry and Belfast sank".

On Islam holding back progress Lord Tebbit said: "The Muslim religion is so unreformed since it was created that nowhere in the Muslim world has there been any real advance in science, or art or literature, or technology in the last 500 years."

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Lord Terry is not exactly the kind of guy I love with all my heart, but one gotto respect him courage to voice non-PC views.