Reply to: re new ables at home

[Chugnut]

Any links ? Info ?

http://www.navitron.org.uk/

As seen on "It's Not Easy Being Green" off the BBC.

Bugger!! I knew the costs for the borehole would be higher but not that bad (we were considering it for when we do the extension and putting underfloor heating in the new kitchen)..

The most efficient approach is a straight pipe in a trench, curled in a slinky is slightly less so but saves a stack of space (I'd have needed 500m of trench otherwise!). Boreholing has the pipe (which has to return to form the loop) operating in a smaller diameter hole. This means it has less surrounding area to draw heat from. I had costs of 8-10k quoted for the borehole(s) - 2 x 75m or 3 x 50m.

Seriously, if you're just doing a small area like a kitchen for UFH, go with an electric mat-type system, not a wet system.

Surely those figures relate to if you wanted to 100% replace your boiler. What about if you were to take some of the load off your boiler. Wouldn't you just need less space. So if you were to half the space needed and add a few solar panals, wouldn't that do the trick?

Yes they do. You'd just adjust the area based on how many Kw you need. Heat pumps don't tend to retro fit or integrate with existing systems very well. Panels / tubes are good at the moment, and getting better all the time. Heat pumps have some way to go yet. With no radiators, UFH throughout, lots of land (or a fast flowing river) for the slinky pipe, Economy 7 /10 heating, and good insulation levels, they start to look better.

What kind of insults do you hurl at a new build?

That's easy.

"F**king cost a fortune!"

[Alf W]

We've got some solar lights in the garden which were quite cheap. The only downside with them is that they are utter cr@p!

[Dow Jones]

Re: new ables

Re: new ables (MB: take a deep breath and say it-renewables, that's it, well done). Lots of properties in SW England (Devon/Cornwall) use solar panels for free hot water. Thinking of doing it too for mine down there.
Minimal cost, offset in a couple of years. Use the boiler as a back up on cold days.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

.......

They're ok for a new build, insulted to the max, with underfloor heating throughout, otherwise the operating costs can be very rude.

.......

What kind of insults do you hurl at a new build?

[BoredBloke]

They'll have to go up an awful lot.

I looked into these as an alternative for an oil boiler. The only way a quote was acceptable was if I could afford (space) to dig 3 x 42m long x 1m deep x 1m wide trenches in my garden with 160m of pipe in each, with a 2m gap between each trench. Couldn't put them in a field either due to planning permission not being granted since it's agricultural land. Boreholing or alternative heat collection pipe was prohibitively expensive.

They're ok for a new build, insulted to the max, with underfloor heating throughout, otherwise the operating costs can be very rude.

A mate has got 40 solar-tubes on his roof, and they're doing a very good job. Hardly a need for the boiler to come on at all during the summer months. A whole solar heating system can be done for between 2-3k.

Surely those figures relate to if you wanted to 100% replace your boiler. What about if you were to take some of the load off your boiler. Wouldn't you just need less space. So if you were to half the space needed and add a few solar panals, wouldn't that do the trick?

[BoredBloke]

From what I can gather the only way to make it work financially atm is in an eco-friendly new build using straw bales rather than bricks/blocks. The money you save on the building materials offsets the cost of putting in the extra eco bits to the point where it can pay for itself in a few years, rather than decades.

Bricks cost around £190 per pallet of 400. Average cost for a 3 bed semi containing 11,000 bricks = £6000.

Straw Bales cost £1.50 each. 1 straw bale = 120 Bricks = 92 bales = £138.

This doesnt count costs for morter, rendering labour etc. You need to clad or render the bales outside which adds to the costs but bales are quicker to build with which custs down on labour costs.

You can find more about this here

[TimberWolf]

From what I can gather the only way to make it work financially atm is in an eco-friendly new build using straw bales rather than bricks/blocks. The money you save on the building materials offsets the cost of putting in the extra eco bits to the point where it can pay for itself in a few years, rather than decades.

Bricks cost around £190 per pallet of 400. Average cost for a 3 bed semi containing 11,000 bricks = £6000.

Straw Bales cost £1.50 each. 1 straw bale = 120 Bricks = 92 bales = £138.

This doesnt count costs for morter, rendering labour etc. You need to clad or render the bales outside which adds to the costs but bales are quicker to build with which custs down on labour costs.

I imagine build costs with haybales would be minimal to zero. Like one normal fit healthy adult male could put up a (straw) house on his own in day. Cladding is for woofters? Just need some land. £138 to build a house sounds good, I don't see why people pay hundreds of thousands of pounds. I expect you'd also need planning permission, building regs and another other red tape sorted, which would turn that £138 one-day house into an expensive nightmare. We used to do it as kids, with being chased by the farmer thrown in for free.

[DaveB]

From what I can gather the only way to make it work financially atm is in an eco-friendly new build using straw bales rather than bricks/blocks. The money you save on the building materials offsets the cost of putting in the extra eco bits to the point where it can pay for itself in a few years, rather than decades.

Bricks cost around £190 per pallet of 400. Average cost for a 3 bed semi containing 11,000 bricks = £6000.

Straw Bales cost £1.50 each. 1 straw bale = 120 Bricks = 92 bales = £138.

This doesnt count costs for morter, rendering labour etc. You need to clad or render the bales outside which adds to the costs but bales are quicker to build with which custs down on labour costs.

[KevinS]

They'll have to go up an awful lot.

I looked into these as an alternative for an oil boiler. The only way a quote was acceptable was if I could afford (space) to dig 3 x 42m long x 1m deep x 1m wide trenches in my garden with 160m of pipe in each, with a 2m gap between each trench. Couldn't put them in a field either due to planning permission not being granted since it's agricultural land. Boreholing or alternative heat collection pipe was prohibitively expensive.

They're ok for a new build, insulted to the max, with underfloor heating throughout, otherwise the operating costs can be very rude.

Bugger!! I knew the costs for the borehole would be higher but not that bad (we were considering it for when we do the extension and putting underfloor heating in the new kitchen)..

[rootsnall]

A mate has got 40 solar-tubes on his roof, and they're doing a very good job. Hardly a need for the boiler to come on at all during the summer months. A whole solar heating system can be done for between 2-3k.

Any links ? Info ?

[ThomasSoerensen]

there is biofuel in my trousers

[Chugnut]

If gas prices keep going up, ground source heat pumps will be well viable..

They'll have to go up an awful lot.

I looked into these as an alternative for an oil boiler. The only way a quote was acceptable was if I could afford (space) to dig 3 x 42m long x 1m deep x 1m wide trenches in my garden with 160m of pipe in each, with a 2m gap between each trench. Couldn't put them in a field either due to planning permission not being granted since it's agricultural land. Boreholing or alternative heat collection pipe was prohibitively expensive.

They're ok for a new build, insulted to the max, with underfloor heating throughout, otherwise the operating costs can be very rude.

A mate has got 40 solar-tubes on his roof, and they're doing a very good job. Hardly a need for the boiler to come on at all during the summer months. A whole solar heating system can be done for between 2-3k.

[Troll]

aft all,

anybody got any re new able energy sources at home, eg,

solar water tubes

solar pv

wind turbines

etc

looking into the cost effectiveness of such investments

Milan

At current prices you will not get a return on your outlay for a great many years- although I did hear that solar pv panels prices were about to drop significantly due to manufacturing capacity increase.

Best thing to do is take the cost hit and kit out your house in all the latest gubbins, then setup yourself as a renewables consultant, get a gang of migrants acting as your install team and watch the money roll in

HTH

[KevinS]

If gas prices keep going up, ground source heat pumps will be well viable..

[TimberWolf]

aft all,

anybody got any re new able energy sources at home, eg,

solar water tubes

solar pv

wind turbines

etc

looking into the cost effectiveness of such investments

Milan

I think they are improving almost to the point where it may be worth it. I don't see that it would be terribly difficult to make your own wind turbine for nought though (source a suitably rated generator from a scarp yard and cobble together the rest*), or a thermal collector (paint the walls of a south facing room black). Fast growing plant stuff in the garden to burn might give you another 1/2 Watt per m^2 too. Your garden probably contains a few kilos of Uranium also.

*Will probably shake itself to bits and demolish your roof.