Question for Malvolio
Mal, why can I find no mention of this case on the PCG website? I thought it would have been a hot topic of discussion?
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Reply to: Another case lost
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Previously on "Another case lost"
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostI work in IB and usually find I am the oldest by a good few years at most gigs. In fact I have been for about the last 10 years! I have been at about 6 gigs in that time.
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The article also discusses the value of the work from his other contracts during the 2 years. They only come to 3.7% of the total company income.
I've heard that other contracts need to make up a minimum of 5% to make an IR35 difference. Anyone else heard this?
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On the subject of being in IR35 for only some of the time, what do the panel think HMR&C would make of a contractor claiming to be within IR35 for, say 6 months, and outside otherwise?
Would they think "this person must be honest to admit any IR35 liability - no point in investigating them", or decide the contractor was borderline IR35 and may well be caught by it in other contracts.
In other words, is admitting to sometimes being IR35-caught likely to be a point in one's favour with HMR&C or against?
(I think I can guess the answer )
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As I have said before;
If the statements made by the company are contrary to the agreement the contractor has in his hand then either the client and or the agent are guilty of deception and possibly fraud.
We need one of these cases to go to court (job for the PCG?) to keep the clients and agents honest.
I still think someone needs to go to court for employee rights after a case like this as the client has stated that everything in the relationship was one of employment.
This case also shows once again the farcical statement that if you are IBOYOA you are safe from IR35. This guy has been trading for years and has only been IR35 caught for 2 years. The weight is that his business is outside but the IR will still want their pound of flesh for this blip.
I still think that we need consequences for the clients and agents when they knowingly state that they regard us as perma temps.
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Originally posted by rootsnall View PostI'm semi ancient but I don't think it's a problem aslong as your skills are not ancient aswell. I've just been working with techie contractors both touching 60 and they don't seem to have a problem finding work. Permie work might be different !?
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Originally posted by Chugnut View PostThe trouble is QDOS have documented examples where HMRC has contacted the end client (sometimes some random HR bod) directly, not via QDOS or the contractor. So even if your immediate client contact(s) are in agreement with YourCo's working conditions, you can still be scuppered.
I'm afraid (IMHO) that if you are dense enough to do this
Shepherd himself appears to have nailed his own coffin tightly shut given he previously told HMRC he inserted the substitution clause to move his assignment away from “falling within IR35.Last edited by Jubber; 4 June 2008, 10:41.
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Originally posted by TheBigYinJames View PostI find that after 18-months you start to 'feel' permie anyway, you get too settled and too comfortable, and then start fearing the end of the contract. Those are bad feelings. Best stay light and able to move. As soon as you feel a compulsion to stay, that's when they start eroding your rates, hours, conditions, and your self esteem.
I'm spending far too much time surfing CUK too which is another sign that it's time to leave!Last edited by kali; 4 June 2008, 10:33.
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Originally posted by Jubber View PostDuring my 'PAYE review' Hector didn't even mention contacting previous clients. If I got another I would probably want to keep the clients well out of it anyway. I presume these cosy chats with the Head Hector are not mandatory for the previous clients.? I would just say they didn't want to come, or make sure they didn't want to come.
Having had one of these already, I still say keep your paperwork in pristine order, tell Hector nothing and stick with Yes Sir, No Sir, Three bags full Sir, then he goes away with all your paperwork and sends it back in a big box which the postman leaves on the doorstep (ffs).
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Originally posted by zeitghostAnd you seem to be forgetting how ancient I am...
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Originally posted by zeitghostHappily, at the moment I don't require the Grecian 2000 or the wig...
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Originally posted by malvolio View PostActually there's been a bit of a debate about that lately. If I understand things properly (not a given, of course!) any notice period implies a degree of MOO, since there is a situation where you may have to work when there is really no more work to be done. So no notice on both sides, as you have in yours, is the ideal. In reality, of course, there are commercial reaons for wanting to keep your supplier tied down, hence the growing use of assymetric notice periods. It's a bit of a fine balance, but as long as you have something in the contract about neither side having to either offer or accept work, some notice can be squared away.
In the case under discussion though, a bald four week unconditional notice was not likely to pass the above test and so was seen as a pointer towards there being a degree of Mutuality
So there is no MOO as far as I'm converned. THey could say "you have 4 weeks notice. But we don't want you to do any more work so leave now". And I don't get paid.
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Originally posted by zeitghostAnd you seem to be forgetting how ancient I am...
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostNow is not the greatest time to be looking though. There is still stuff out there - but times are not brilliant.
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Originally posted by VectraMan View PostI agree. It seems the most important lesson here is to have the client on your side. But how much can you really count on somebody who doesn't understand the situation, and probably isn't happy about having to waste time on a contractor's tax squabbles?
Having had one of these already, I still say keep your paperwork in pristine order, tell Hector nothing and stick with Yes Sir, No Sir, Three bags full Sir, then he goes away with all your paperwork and sends it back in a big box which the postman leaves on the doorstep (ffs).
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