Reply to: Xenophobic - South Africa?

[Cyberman]

By South Africa's refusal to condemn or interfere with Mugabe's despotic rule, it is reaping 'the rewards' of its foreign policy, as asylum seekers escape across the border from Zimbabwe to avoid terror, starvation and rampant inflation.

South Africa thus reap what they sow !!!

[oracleslave]

I would agree that Mbeki's failure to take the lead in any effective action against Mugabe was a lot to do with it. The damage, in terms of the way this affects worldwide attitudes to Africa and probably to blacks generally, goes much wider than that.

Can't fault your post. Only mitigation I can think of is Mbeki obviously finds it difficult to criticise/take action against someone that played an active supporting/financial role in helping him during his time in exile.

[BrilloPad]

So... who's planning to visit for the 2010 Football World Cup?

[xoggoth]

I would agree that Mbeki's failure to take the lead in any effective action against Mugabe was a lot to do with it. The damage, in terms of the way this affects worldwide attitudes to Africa and probably to blacks generally, goes much wider than that.

[EternalOptimist]

Link I was going to say that It would appear to be be working as a policy, but some may see that as insensitive

You carry on mate. The world is a tough old place and no amount of Political correctness will change that

[Troll]

Link I was going to say that It would appear to be be working as a policy, but some may see that as insensitive

[OwlHoot]

Gee I must have missed the bit where Mbeki "caused the refugee crisis in SA" How exactly did he do that?

Mbeki may be an idealist and out of touch. A megalomaniac he is not.

I think Marina meant Mugabe was the megalomaniac.

[oracleslave]

And it's largely his megalomania and arrogant idiocy that's caused the refugee crisis in SA. Talk about chickens coming home to roost.

Gee I must have missed the bit where Mbeki "caused the refugee crisis in SA" How exactly did he do that?

Mbeki may be an idealist and out of touch. A megalomaniac he is not.

[sunnysan]

Effective Policing

Well it appears that effective policing might sort it out

http://www.mg.co.za/ContentImages/339611/police.jpg

[Marina]

President Thabo Mbeki said he would set up a panel of experts to investigate the violence.

Isn't he one of the main culprits in discouraging any intervention or even criticism by African leaders against Robert Mugabe over the last few years? And it's largely his megalomania and arrogant idiocy that's caused the refugee crisis in SA. Talk about chickens coming home to roost.

P.S. I've never heard even the saintly Nelson Mandela mention Zimbabwe. Seems like the kind of thing the press would report if he had.

[xoggoth]

The term scapegoat suggests these people are being blamed for problems not of their making.

I cannot say I have looked into it, but the idea that very large numbers of unemployed and destitute people can pour into a country and NOT cause significant problems for an already poor indigenous population sounds a little far fetched.

[oracleslave]

So... who's planning to visit for the 2010 Football World Cup?

Not me. Are you?

[Troll]

So... who's planning to visit for the 2010 Football World Cup?

[oracleslave]

OS

If someone is an illegal immigrant in a country, does that give the locals the right to cremate the poor sods(Unfortunately they where not dead yet) in the street?

If that was the case London would look like Dorset during foot and mouth.

I am not sure where you (or Churchill) got the idea that I was condoning any violence. That is certainly not the case and the actions are frankly inexcusable. Where I think there should be no real suprise is that it has occurred frequently around the world and not just in SA i.e. When the exportation of a free market democracy is pushed in the developing world it often creates tendency of some minorities to benefit disproportionately, this in turn inflames ethnic hatred among the ethnicities who make up those countries' populations. Indonesia, Russia, Sierra Leone, Bolivia and in the Middle East have all experienced this and I don't see SA as any different.

Illegall migrants generally work as far as I know albeit illegally, they sell fruit, curios etc etc and generally keep out of trouble owing to the repurcaussions if caught in SA as an illegal alien (Not sure if you remeber Lindela(Read SA's Sangatte) where the camp guards where setting dogs on the inmates)

Big generalisation but I would venture that it's correct on the whole. However given the 'vibe' that you described earlier it only takes a few bad eggs to spark off a situation.

Illegal immigrants are a vunerable scapegoat to vent their frustrations on.

Agree

So yes, you have a bigger middle class but a bigger population to. This growing black middle class conincides with a huge loss of skills for the former white middle class as they leave South Africa in droves, taking with them their skills and expertise.

Does this not make some of the growth figures etc even more impressive?

The corruption and ineffectiveness of the ANC is every bit as bad as the apartheid regime

I don't know from what figures/stats base you can make that statement. Conversely I don't have any to counter that argument. I do think there is however a far greater transparency now that never existed previously so any corruption is far more likely to come to the fore nowadays.
Just because more of the beneficiaries of South Africas wealth are now black does not mean that the wealth is any more fairly distributed.

OMG!!! I used the word "fair". Someone electrocute me now !!

I prefer employing a firing squad if you still up for it

[sunnysan]

South Africa

OS

If someone is an illegal immigrant in a country, does that give the locals the right to cremate the poor sods(Unfortunately they where not dead yet) in the street?

If that was the case London would look like Dorset during foot and mouth.

Illegall migrants generally work as far as I know albeit illegally, they sell fruit, curios etc etc and generally keep out of trouble owing to the repurcaussions if caught in SA as an illegal alien (Not sure if you remeber Lindela(Read SA's Sangatte) where the camp guards where setting dogs on the inmates)

The ANC has been successfull to a degree in creating jobs, and yes there is an emerging black middle class.

However , it may be an impossible task but they have not addressed the level of poverty in the majority of the population and this economic prosperity you tout has not really filtered down to the alleviate the deep sense of dissatisfaction that exists in the core electorate. The economy has grown in spite of the ANC not becuase of them

Illegal immigrants are a vunerable scapegoat to vent their frustrations on.

So yes, you have a bigger middle class but a bigger population to. This growing black middle class conincides with a huge loss of skills for the former white middle class as they leave South Africa in droves, taking with them their skills and expertise.

The corruption and ineffectiveness of the ANC is every bit as bad as the apartheid regime

Just because more of the beneficiaries of South Africas wealth are now black does not mean that the wealth is any more fairly distributed.

OMG!!! I used the word "fair". Someone electrocute me now !!