(Permie noob) Getting first contract and dealing with agents.

[Gunshy]

Thanks for all the posts. Seems chef's advice is highly regarded on this forum so thanks to chef for your advice and restraint in the way it was given! I've been shot down/flamed in forums before and prob. will be again. Doesn't bother me.

I have actually done a fair amount of research, but didn't want to list absolutely everything I've read and thought about since I thought that would make for a long and tedious post. The list of of agent don'ts was in my head before I got any calls from agents. I compiled it by reading a lot before hand. I realise it probably sounded like stating the obvious to most of the forum members, but my experience with agents has been very limited up to now. There's lots of good advice on the web about things like Umbrella vs. Limited Co. and IR35, but insights into the minds of agents are harder to find. Anyway, my post has elicited some very useful advice and I got it without being flamed so I'm really greatfull, thanks

I've read all the very sobering advice about why it's not a good time to become a contractor. But having worked in the public sector for the past year I have three good reasons to try and move into this now.

1. I have reason to believe the demand is there.
2. My employers offerings in terms of pay and advancement are so sh*t at the moment, if I got just six months work and was benched for the rest of the year, I'd still be better off.
3. I have very few financial or personal commitments at the moment, I'm at a point where I can quite easily drop everything and move anywhere, the only thing holding me back is my notice period. In other words; I have a very comfortable bench waiting for me if I find I'm having to do a lot of sitting around waiting.

I thought if I could get an interview then that would confirm that I at least have a chance. I thought this would give me the right balance between risk/benefit and so this would be a good time to quit. But I do take the point that it probably doesn't make that much difference whether I quit now or when I get an interview as there are no guarantees.

[eliquant]

The other one you should watch out for from the agent is ... ye olde ...

"Lets meet up for a chat"

You must never.. EVER do this ... basically it's a scam to butter you up and to extract info out of you .. a waste of your time totally, they will try to 'bullsh*t' you if you say 'no lets not meet up' .. i.e. ..."the client believes it is important that we must see our candidates and will not consider you for an interview unless we see you in person, it adds value to the candidate" .. (absolute tosh and no job exists). If you agree to see them they will try and get previous colleagues' names and places of where you are interviewing whilst they offer you a cheap Starbucks coffee.

Going back many, many years during these meetings with agents I've tried to explain to them what I do and have asked questions about the job and you are met with complete evasion, which just puts a real downer on things because you realise that you are dealing with someone who cannot understand and does not want to understand what you do.

[swamp]

I believe a would-be contractor should always resign before they start looking for contracts. If you can't do this then how do you expect to handle being on the bench?!

If you get an interview then you are 8 or 9/10ths of the way to a contract. Interviews are key. But if you're able to wait until after an interview before resigning (ie. the agent is prepared to take a chance on you) then you may as well wait until you have a real contract before writing to your boss.

Oh, and now is not a very good time to go contracting.

[miffy]

Not where I work. They seem to shuffle the useless contractors around to different departments, or just keep them on.

Crikey. Is that in the public sector by any chance?

[dude69]

If you think it will benefit your company by face to face relations with agents then do it, it was 2 years before I met my agent so it's not like being permie, your judged on your reputation and your skills, if your carp then your gone on day 1 or as soon as you mess up.

Not where I work. They seem to shuffle the useless contractors around to different departments, or just keep them on.

[miffy]

Good post that Chef, you must have been totally mellow this morning!

Maybe the OP will say thanx at some point. It's just a hit and run at the moment.

[NotAllThere]

ok,

im in a very good mood this morning and so before the others wake up and begin the abuse (thats what General is for, maybe best to post serious questions in Business/Contracts) here's a few free tips..

Top post. Should be part of the CUK hall of fame. Listen to what the guy is saying.

[bored]

One agent told me that he didn't rate my chances of getting any contract work and forwarded me a bunch of permie roles.

When they say that they actually mean "I do not have any contract roles at the moment" or "I only work with perm roles"

[HairyArsedBloke]

It’s been a while since I’ve had to deal with agents from a contractor’s point of view. Now I get them pestering me on the odd occasion. I don’t need ‘em so I tell ‘em to shove it.

Anyway, one key point in the relationship that fresh contractors (and some seasoned one) get confused with about agents is who they are act for. They are agents for the end client and not the contractor; they are not representing you.

[Turion]

Resigning just because you've got an interview is a bit suspect. Why not quit now if you're really so sure of youself. A contractor who can start the next day is far more likely to get an offer, than one who must wait 2-3 weeks. Speed is of the essence here.

Agents like fresh meat, hence the calls. They're more likely pumping you for info than have real roles to offer. Don't bother following up. If they have something for you they will be over you like a bad rash. Visiting an agent == wasting time. Also insist on telephone interviews first, b4 face to face. Will saves you wasting a day and £££ travelling exp. Often, if they like you they will make offer on basis of a 15 min telephone chat.

Now is not a good time to quit permiedom. Have a comfortable bench ready.

http://www.contractoruk.com/news/003722.html

Good luck anyway and I hope that your mum is a good cook.

[chef]

ok,

im in a very good mood this morning and so before the others wake up and begin the abuse (thats what General is for, maybe best to post serious questions in Business/Contracts) here's a few free tips..

My plan is to resign as soon as I get my first interview.

no no and thrice no. Interview does not equal job. If you want to play things safe then wait until you are offered a contract. Agents know that permie's to contractors have notice to work, they are usually more than happy to accomodate that, from their perspective you are effectively saying "if you wait the 4 weeks minus holiday notice from the date i get the contract there's a chance im going to be with you for a long while, if you dont wait, you gain nothing", agents need money the same as everyone else and so they will be happy to wait assuming your up to the role.

I put my CV in jobsite at about 1.30am Thursday. Phone started ringing at 8.00am was taking calls from various agents for about half an hour.

Classic Shark (sorry agent) behavior, it's their job to find fresh meat.

but the jobs are starting to repeat.

that tells you how much work there is out there then, so you can set your rate accordingly, i.e lots of work, lots of agents calling, its a fair assumption there are not many candidates floating around OR the contract has something serious wrong that others wont touch. if there are no calls then there's no work around.

I've actually lost track of exactly where my CV has gone now. I was a bit taken by surprise when I started getting all these calls and didn't always have a pen handy . I had no idea that agencies follow these things up so aggressively

lesson 1 learned, buy a f###ing pen or tell the agent to call back later. Look at it from an employers point of view, he has a position he wants filling and some idiotic feckwit has sent his cv in 12 times, well if the idiot cant even manage his own CV, why would I want him looking after my prize IT system. Buy a pen, open excel, make yourself a CV/Agent spreadsheet, in 1 yrs time on contract number 2,3 etc. you want to know which version of your cv mr gel spray has, its your companies reputation and if it ends at 2007 then it doesnt look good on you.

If you think it will benefit your company by face to face relations with agents then do it, it was 2 years before I met my agent so it's not like being permie, your judged on your reputation and your skills, if your carp then your gone on day 1 or as soon as you mess up.

I can't figure a lot of these agents out. Most of them were up beat. I've been setting my rate at about £400, some of the agents seemed eager for me to bump it up a bit. One agent told me that he didn't rate my chances of getting any contract work and forwarded me a bunch of permie roles.

Sorry I dont know your field of work and so have no idea of what your rate should be. Do your research, thats what google is for.
The agents who say you should go permie are simply saying "i have no contract roles, i do however have a few permie roles that i'd like to pimp you for", if agents said jump off a cliff would you?

So far I've gotten an idea of some of the don'ts with agents:
Don't give them references,
Don't ask 'what do YOU think my rate should be?'.
Don't tell them what other agencies you've been talking to.
Don't tell them about other positions you've been put forward for.

Anything else I should watch out for?

Are you SERIOUS??? 'what do YOU think my rate should be?' you do understand the basics of agents?, the cheaper rate you accept the more likely mr spikey hair gets to buying the M5 he's got his eye on.

Other advice:
- buy a pen
- dont trust anything an agent says, however, understand that the agent is likely to be the person who gets you business, treat them with respect but understand that most agents would sell there own son if it meant their alterior motive happens. it's a business to business relationship.
- nothing is certain until its written in the form of a contract, if it's not in the contract it doesnt exist no matter what mr agent says it doesnt exist
- get yourself an accountant
- get your contract checked by a professional, its not just a bit of paper, it's the thing that you will rely on when your not paid, your told to work 16hrs a day for your standard daily rate, mr taxman comes a knockin and wants the 40% tax + interest in 3 years time based on your working practice
- consider joining the PCG, i personally believe the benefits are easily worth the business expense.
- read the 'first timers' and 'free stuff' sections of this site, in fact read up on anything related to your business, VAT rules, tax rules, the more you learn the less likely you are to fail or ask a question that will irate others on here.
- get a thick skin, you'll be working to perform a task/complete a project NOT to make friends with the locals.

I think that's about it, oh and welcome, good luck

[threaded]

Double that rate! You're cheaper than the Indians in the donut! Jeez, some people!

There're a few big projects in the offing at the moment, meaning they're having a devil of a time resourcing DVed peeps. Which explains why the pimps are all over you.

For cleared jobs it's not quite the same with references. I always give them the name of this anal retentive type, who enjoys talking to pimps (I think they're the only people who will talk to him, and that's 'cause they're getting paid for it)

[Gunshy]

I'm currently a permie looking to get my first contract. I think I'm in a fairly good position to start, no real financial or personal commitments, wiling to move anywhere and have current DV clearence. I have about 3.5 yrs Java/J2EE experience.

I haven't quit my permie job yet. My employer requires 4 weeks notice, but I can shorten this with some leave. I'm only looking for jobs which require DV clearance and my understanding is that clients with this kind of vacancy are usually willing to wait a bit longer. My plan is to resign as soon as I get my first interview. If it goes pear shaped, I've enough savings to see me through 2 months and I can always go and stay with my parents for while.

I put my CV in jobsite at about 1.30am Thursday. Phone started ringing at 8.00am was taking calls from various agents for about half an hour. I got another bunch of calls during the day and another one yesterday, but the jobs are starting to repeat. I've actually lost track of exactly where my CV has gone now. I was a bit taken by surprise when I started getting all these calls and didn't always have a pen handy . I had no idea that agencies follow these things up so aggressively!

I was wondering what the next step is. I've seen some advice suggesting that I chase up some of the calls. One of the agencies is local; would it be worth popping in to their office?

I can't figure a lot of these agents out. Most of them were up beat. I've been setting my rate at about £400, some of the agents seemed eager for me to bump it up a bit. One agent told me that he didn't rate my chances of getting any contract work and forwarded me a bunch of permie roles.

So far I've gotten an idea of some of the don'ts with agents:
Don't give them references,
Don't ask 'what do YOU think my rate should be?'.
Don't tell them what other agencies you've been talking to.
Don't tell them about other positions you've been put forward for.

Anything else I should watch out for?