Reply to: Oh dear (tm), Jihad about to be declared on Turkey!

[threaded]

You don't think it was the Age of Enlightenment during which the influence of the church started to wane that allowed scientific advancement to take place?

I mean, 1800 years of Christianity = no progress

200 years of Enlightenment = man on the moon among other notable advances

Oh dear, another one that falls for the protestant proaganda. The dark ages arte only 'dark' because the advances are something protestant education systems don't talk much about. There were in fact many advances, eventually culminating in the reformation...

threaded in "whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." mode

[oracleslave]

We're gonna need the insightful NickyG to elaborate on that one.

BTW, NickyG is David Icke and I claim my £5

barking

[Bod]

It's well known that God & Jesus were aliens anyway
I didn't know they were lizard monsters though

We're gonna need the insightful NickyG to elaborate on that one.

BTW, NickyG is David Icke and I claim my £5

[AtW]

Actually it was us...

No.

[Platypus]

Actually it was us...

It's well known that God & Jesus were aliens anyway
I didn't know they were lizard monsters though

[realityhack]

OMG, this is in danger of being a balanced, reasoned debate. Quick, someone have a poll!

[Cheshire Cat]

OMG, this is in danger of being a balanced, reasoned debate. Quick, someone have a poll!

[Bod]

My point is this - our society, like it or not, is underpinned by Christian values

Agree with everything you said RH, and I have no problem with Christian values, only Christian beliefs, or indeed any religious beliefs.

Religious people are inherently irrational and I'm always wary of irrational people.

[Bod]

Or the Prophet Zarquon...

peace be upon it

[realityhack]

a mate of mine has a t-shirt with the logo (large letters, white on black) "Christiany is Stupid."

And I'm sure those offended would voice it, perhaps even get into an argument, or perhaps a debate.
Replace 'Christianity' with 'Islam' on that T-Shirt and see the 'debates' your mate will get into wearing that.
Now, your mate is wearing that T-Shirt in ostensibly a Christian country. See if he's brave enough to wear the second T-Shirt in an Islamic country. See how far he gets with that one.

My point is this - our society, like it or not, is underpinned by Christian values - many of our laws are built around those principles, whether you're religious or not. And the carrying through of the Hellenistic rationale - excellent point Threaded - has propelled our societies through Philosophy, Enquiry, debate, and later Science, while providing a robust framework allowing for the Enlightenment (post Rome), for the separation of church and state and mutual respect (or at the least, tolerance) of differing viewpoints.

This is the reformation Islam needs to undergo - it may be messy, but it looks like the latest front lines are in Turkey - best of luck to them.

[Platypus]

The combination of Hellenistic rationality with Hebrew faith "Give unto Caeser" etc. which led to the promotion of the sciences and arts giving us in the west the scientific method as opposed to the rhetoric of other traditions.

You don't think it was the Age of Enlightenment during which the influence of the church started to wane that allowed scientific advancement to take place?

I mean, 1800 years of Christianity = no progress

200 years of Enlightenment = man on the moon among other notable advances

[Cheshire Cat]

kneel at the altar of the FSM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If by roughly you mean 700 years younger then, yes, roughly it is...

But Muslims regard the (reported) word of Abraham as the foundation of their faith - by which measure it's the same age as the others, surely?

[AtW]

If by roughly you mean 700 years younger then, yes, roughly it is...

Wheh Christianity was as young as that it engaged into Crusades.

It does not matter anyway - religion has no place in the 21st century, frankly if it's illegal to sell smokes to under 16, then it should be illegal to teach religion to anyone who reaches the age when that person can make decision whether to believe in it or not. Before that this person should be well educated and only then take a bite at this religion thing.

[Cheshire Cat]

judaism dates back about 4000 years, christianity about 2000 years, islam about 1400 years

HTH