Reply to: The Case against HR

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Dear PS, I'll gie ye some advice,
You'll tak it no uncivil:
You shouldna paint at angels man
But try and paint the devil.


To paint an Angel's kittle work,
Wi' Nick there's little danger: -
You'll easy draw a lang-kent face,
But no sae weel a stranger..

OK - that looks like Rabby Burns to me - but what's his/your point (sorry am too dense to get it)

[AlfredJPruffock]

Indeed - the devil has some interesting news on this - apparently she's set up her own consultancy!

Dear PS, I'll gie ye some advice,
You'll tak it no uncivil:
You shouldna paint at angels man
But try and paint the devil.


To paint an Angel's kittle work,
Wi' Nick there's little danger: -
You'll easy draw a lang-kent face,
But no sae weel a stranger..

[Churchill]

Define IT!

The MIS department at our place are worse than useless, they screw-up on a daily if not weekly basis!

I'd outsource them tomorrow!

As for HR...

[Peoplesoft bloke]

From the FT online by Luke Johnson

.........

the backs of the productive workers. Other divisions that can become the enemy include IT, legal and marketing. They don’t sell or produce: they consume. They are the amorphous support services.

Whilst I agree with much of what this dude says about HR, the above is pure tulip, done right, marketing and IT are essential contributors, although employing contractors is clearly the best approach to IT - but to view IT purely as a resource drain is insanity. Now as for legal.......

Training advisers are employed to distract everyone from doing their job with pointless courses. Appraisal experts are contracted to critique staff relations. Experts are drafted in to devise an appropriate corporate social responsibility agenda – whatever that is.

Only the bad ones - I've learned some of the most useful stuff at work on courses.

Bosses who do a poor job can be as bad as workers:

No tulip, sherlock - tell us something we didn't know!

no one seems to accept blame for anything. Rose Gibb, chief executive of Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells Health Trust, received a £75,000 pay-off after at least 90 patients died from clostridium difficile in hospitals she ran. The message is: reward for catastrophic failure.

Indeed - the devil has some interesting news on this - apparently she's set up her own consultancy!

[KathyWoolfe]

I dont get to use long words very often

Thats ok, I try not to get too obsessed about correct spellings but sometimes I just can't resist
- and as sasguru pointed out I think your spelling was inspired.

[DodgyAgent]

sycophantic

I dont get to use long words very often

[NotAllThere]

Can you explain how this was possible?

Not really - I got a nice payout to keep quiet...

oh, ok. First of all, the boss set me up to fail on one project. It was clear from the start that it wouldn't meet the deadlines. I knew he was doing this, so I made sure that all communications with him where via email - confirming what he'd said, what the requirements were. And, when it became obvious that the timescales were impossible, informing him, making suggestions of ways round etc. etc.

Then we had an internal audit, and, what a surprise, one of my projects - just going into the testing phase - was selected. There were some initial findings, including a few that looked pretty critical - but later turned out to be negligible.

Then the boss pounced. He had a meeting with me and one of the partners from the consultancy we used. He said he'd bring in the partner, and put him into my position, with me supporting said partner. On the grounds that I'd blown the audit. I refused, pointing out that the partner was being paid for out of my budget. I terminated the meeting there and then by walking out.

This next bit happened twice: I sent my boss my account of what had happened in the meeting and setting out what he said would happen. He replied, saying my understanding was correct. I said it was unfair to spring such a meeting on me, as I'd not been given time to properly respond to the issues raised. So, he arranged another meeting. I presented my findings, and then he brought out a whole new raft of accusations.

All of this was nicely documented, and in the last email I sent him, I cc'd HR. They arranged a meeting, where I was offered a position in my department, instead of running it. I explained this was constructive dismissal. They said "no it isn't, you were promoted internally". I said "no I wasn't, I was recruited externally into the position". They said "oh smeg" - or something similar, once I had been rapidly expelled from the meeting room

A deal was struck. I had them over a barrel - bad publiclity, court case, oh what fun! And all documented and agreed to by my boss. Because he had screwed up so badly, he was jettisoned shortly before I left,

[KathyWoolfe]

On the other hand I like the word psychophantic. Suggests a whole population of murderous arse-lickers .

I agree, I think we should write to the OED and get them to change the spelling!

[sasguru]

sycophantic

On the other hand I like the word psychophantic. Suggests a whole population of murderous arse-lickers .

[PAH]

Didn't the HR department used to be called the Personnel department? Or is that something different?

Yes, until Personnel was seen to be full of useless cows, so they had to restrict it to humans.

[KathyWoolfe]

Prefferred supplier lists are compiled for their convenience, consisting of psychophantic low level resourcers from mainly large agencies.

sycophantic

[TimberWolf]

Didn't the HR department used to be called the Personnel department? Or is that something different?

[Francko]

I had a dust-up with my manager once. I gave him just enough rope to hang himself, and kept records. At the optimum time, I included HR in the discussions. Once they'd seen what had been going on, the manager got the elbow for messing up so badly, and I got a nice pay off to keep quiet.
( I did have friend in another HR dept advising me every step of the way ).

Can you explain how this was possible?

[hyperD]

I look forward to the time when they go back to the "Typing pool" where they belong.

[DodgyAgent]

From the FT online by Luke Johnson

Human resources is a management term that should strike fear into the heart of every self-respecting entrepreneur.

Thanks to low global interest rates, high government spending, increased credit and cheap goods from China, there is a belief that Britain is a very rich country with a robust economy. This may prove a painful illusion.




Forum: Are HR departments a waste of time, or a necessary part of business?

The brilliant Avis boss Robert Townsend in his book Up the Organisation suggests firing the entire personnel department. Indeed, I have radically downsized HR in several companies I have run, and business has gone all the better for it.

Tragically, we live in a time of overwhelming employment legislation, so getting legal procedures right can save time and heartache – that is the sort of task HR handles. It is probably the very definition of a necessary evil for a 21st century business.

HR is like many parts of modern businesses: a simple expense, and a burden on the backs of the productive workers. Other divisions that can become the enemy include IT, legal and marketing. They don’t sell or produce: they consume. They are the amorphous support services.

Often it makes sense to sub-contract these activities and reward the external provider based on performance. If they don’t deliver, you don’t pay and you can replace them.

But managers too often think their company isn’t grown-up unless it has all these important-sounding departments. It is a grave error to succumb to institutionalisation: good leaders care about results, not process. Too often I come across companies where staff in the field work not for customers but for HQ, which drains the company of cash and enthusiasm.

Typically an apparatus builds up around divisions such as HR to expand their role and cost more money. For example, compensation consultants are hired to come up with justifications for paying everyone more.

Training advisers are employed to distract everyone from doing their job with pointless courses. Appraisal experts are contracted to critique staff relations. Experts are drafted in to devise an appropriate corporate social responsibility agenda – whatever that is.

All this paraphernalia is accepted as essential good practice by modern-thinking corporate management. I think most of it is expensive, bureaucratic hogwash. But, clearly, it becomes a lucrative bandwagon for many to jump on – so they justify it all, come what may.

Of course, senior executives understand that HR is powerful – a bit like Mossad or the CIA. Those in personnel know everyone’s salary and bonus and all their disciplinary records. Wily office politicians cultivate them, since they help decide who gets a pay rise and promotion, how contracts are drafted, how individuals are treated if there is a restructuring and so on. Meanwhile, headhunters spend their time cultivating the top talent and shuffling the deck, profiting at every turn.

Running organisations that employ lots of people is increasingly difficult. No wonder the Rich List is full of more property entrepreneurs than any other kind. Inanimate objects like buildings can’t sue for unfair dismissal for discrimination over age, race, faith, gender, or sexual orientation – or demand flexible working or maternity rights.

Bosses who do a poor job can be as bad as workers: no one seems to accept blame for anything. Rose Gibb, chief executive of Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells Health Trust, received a £75,000 pay-off after at least 90 patients died from clostridium difficile in hospitals she ran. The message is: reward for catastrophic failure.


Inevitably, the bracing winds of a downturn will clear away a lot of pointless administration.

Companies will cut back on non-essential functions and ship expensive jobs abroad to cheap countries when they can. Legislators who have never met a payroll refuse to understand that when they gold-plate employment rights, they ultimately destroy jobs and prosperity.

Thanks to low global interest rates, high government spending, increased credit and cheap goods from China, there is a belief that Britain is a very rich country with a robust economy. This may prove a painful illusion.

Companies should start getting fit right now. As Albert Einstein said: “Bureaucracy is the death of any achievement.” When it is a question of survival, there is no room for the non-essential.

Email: Luke Johnson

You are preaching to the converted

HR are largely power mad little people. The bad ones (50%) are usually the female equivalent of the male golf club committee member. They have little appreciation of the commercial dynamics of business and are internal empire builders. They are also thick and insecure. They play their power games out in recruitment where they have a legitimate target for bullying .. recruitment agencies . Prefferred supplier lists are compiled for their convenience, consisting of psychophantic low level resourcers from mainly large agencies.
They absolutely hate it when they are pushed aside by the business when the business decides to circumvent the PSL. They are particularly unpleasant to women recruiters, of which the good ones are deemed as threatening (because a lot of them are failed recruitment consultants)

Male HR people (and again I am talking about 50% of them) are even worse because they are largely made up of people who have essentially been sidelined from more important parts of the business, and they resent it.