Reply to: Bedlam at Heathrow

[WotNxt]

Ok, different aircraft, different manufacturers, different autothrottle methods and different software.

Now, where's the similarity again?

Oh yeah, I forgot, they've both got wings and engines.

If you read what I posted you will see that the autothrottle system on a 777 cannot override the pilot. The pilot on the 777 moved the throttle levers to increase power - the engines did not respond.

If Boeng thought it was software, don't you think that every 777 with those engines would now be on the ground?

I said "similarities of circumstance". Stop getting your knickers in a twist!

[Churchill]

I do not doubt what you say. However the similarities of circumstance are there.

My suspicion is a software fault in the fly-by-wire systems which caused either a failure to respond to the request for more power or even OVERRODE the request for more power as the system "believed" that throttling up at that precise moment/place in the flight envelope was the wrong thing to do! This was widely speculated as the cause for the ealier crash.

Of course there could be many many other explanations, what with aircraft systems being so complex. I guess we'll need to wait for the investigation findings to know what really happened.

Ok, different aircraft, different manufacturers, different autothrottle methods and different software.

Now, where's the similarity again?

Oh yeah, I forgot, they've both got wings and engines.

If you read what I posted you will see that the autothrottle system on a 777 cannot override the pilot. The pilot on the 777 moved the throttle levers to increase power - the engines did not respond.

If Boeing thought it was software, don't you think that every 777 with those engines would now be on the ground?

[WotNxt]

Different aircraft, different Autothrottle.

On a 777, the pilot can override the autothrottle by moving the throttle levers and maintaining pressure. Once the pilot removes pressure from the throttle levers the autothrottle will regain control. The autothrottle in the case of a 777 moves the throttle levers by means of a servo to increase/decrease power. In the case of an airbus the throttle servo is used to reflect the change in power setting, not to instigate it.

Churchill - In "hth" mode!

I do not doubt what you say. However the similarities of circumstance are there.

My suspicion is a software fault in the fly-by-wire systems which caused either a failure to respond to the request for more power or even OVERRODE the request for more power as the system "believed" that throttling up at that precise moment/place in the flight envelope was the wrong thing to do! This was widely speculated as the cause for the ealier crash.

Of course there could be many many other explanations, what with aircraft systems being so complex. I guess we'll need to wait for the investigation findings to know what really happened.

[Ardesco]

Different aircraft, different Autothrottle.

On a 777, the pilot can override the autothrottle by moving the throttle levers and maintaining pressure. Once the pilot removes pressure from the throttle levers the autothrottle will regain control. The autothrottle in the case of a 777 moves the throttle levers by means of a servo to increase/decrease power. In the case of an airbus the throttle servo is used to reflect the change in power setting, not to instigate it.

Churchill - In "hth" mode!

When thinking of aircraft to fly in as a passenger I always remember what a contractor i worked with once told me (She was using contracting to fund her private pilots license).

Airbus planes don't have a physical connection to the controls, only an electronic one. So if your electrics fail in an airbus you're ****ed!!!!

[Churchill]

Personally, I think this crash has some striking similarities with this one a few years back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

"[the pilot] also reported that the engines didn't respond to his throttle input as he attempted to increase power."

Different aircraft, different Autothrottle.

On a 777, the pilot can override the autothrottle by moving the throttle levers and maintaining pressure. Once the pilot removes pressure from the throttle levers the autothrottle will regain control. The autothrottle in the case of a 777 moves the throttle levers by means of a servo to increase/decrease power. In the case of an airbus the throttle servo is used to reflect the change in power setting, not to instigate it.

Churchill - In "hth" mode!

[AtW]

You may experience a sudden yaw moment if an engine fails, but that isn't a bank.

Yeah, that's a relief

[WotNxt]

Personally, I think this crash has some striking similarities with this one a few years back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

"[the pilot] also reported that the engines didn't respond to his throttle input as he attempted to increase power."

[Churchill]

He didn't say airliner, he said airplane.... the Fokker 50 can be vomit inducing in weather that a larger airliner would slice through.

That is not a controlled manoeuvre. I was once onboard a 747 that "fell" 5,000 feet due to a pocket of turbulence. Again, an uncontrolled manoeuvre!

A bank to the left or right is controlled and its angle regulated.

[Spacecadet]

No civil airliner can "bank Suddenly". Their wings are too damn big and the bank angle is limited.

He didn't say airliner, he said airplane.... the Fokker 50 can be vomit inducing in weather that a larger airliner would slice through.

[tay]

Paranoia is never misplaced.

They really are out to get me.

Good. I wish them the best of luck.

[Churchill]

I have fear of heights, being on an airplane is pretty high - I especially can't stand their turns when airplane banks suddenly left or right, at the very least they should have some warning, and even worse they bank to one side right after lift-off so if something goes wrong there is no height to do anything

No civil airliner can "bank Suddenly". Their wings are too damn big and the bank angle is limited.

You may experience a sudden yaw moment if an engine fails, but that isn't a bank.

Churchill - In "If you want a sudden bank ask HyperD" mode!
p.s. - As for SASGURU, he's a southern onanist!

[AtW]

No, recent crash is allright - they were pretty close to the ground and the pilots seem to be excellent. Something like this happened in Russia but pilots screwed up - lost speed, and basically dropped down, everyone died. BA pilots clearly pretty good - I always fly BA now, well, until now - next time I go to Russia I take train going from Paris via Germany to Moscow. 12 hour daytime stop in Berlin, can go out and see another country

[oracleslave]

I have fear of heights, being on an airplane is pretty high - I especially can't stand their turns when airplane banks suddenly left or right, at the very least they should have some warning, and even worse they bank to one side right after lift-off so if something goes wrong there is no height to do anything

Ok so you have an issue with heights and not specifically to do with the recent 'crash'. You do know this fear is irrational and can be overcome then?

[AtW]

I think your paranoia is misplaced.

I have fear of heights, being on an airplane is pretty high - I especially can't stand their turns when airplane banks suddenly left or right, at the very least they should have some warning, and even worse they bank to one side right after lift-off so if something goes wrong there is no height to do anything

[BrilloPad]

I made this decision well before it - even though I rank BA highly but no way I am subjecting myself to this carp again - not even if I get paid for it

what went wrong? did a BA flight run over a squirrel?